Spices & Fruit Pulp

[HowardVic]

Greetings TAKeysar & Chevette Girl. Thanks for the ongoing advice.

70 gallons distilled water + 46 gallons pure honey = 116 gallons of must is all there is in the fermentor right now.

The 3 gallons of Passion Fruit pulp would have been added towards the end of the third week of fermentation (today marks day 14 of fermentation) that I thought would be the right time to add fruit pulp and "tea" of rosemary leaves and cardamom seeds. I had thought the entire fermentation would last about 6 weeks due to the large amount of must.

When I filled the fermentor, I mixed water, honey & three 4 oz. jars of Yeast Energizer (Nutrient Booster) labels says each jar sufficient for 35 gallons of wine. I did this to ensure a successful start to the fermentation. I mixed the water, honey and Yeast Energizer in 5 gallon food safe plastic bucket (during several hours way past midnight) aerated it with an electric whisk and poured it into the fermentor.

I then added an additional jar of the Yeast Energizer when I noticed the fermentation slowing down considerably a few days ago.

Not having yeast hulls, could I boil the left over White Labs Sweet Mead Yeast WLP720 and add it to the must? I wonder if I have sufficient time to order yeast hulls. If I order tonight from E.C. Kraus, I might get it delivered by Monday or Tuesday. Next Friday would be third week of fermentation.

I am wondering if because of all the Yeast Energizer I added when I mixed the must that the fermentation took off fast and is coming to completion faster than usual.

I guess I may not have time now to add the Passion Fruit pulp and spices without negatively affecting the must or I wonder if the Passion Fruit pulp (highly acidic) might provide nutrient for the must. I read adding Camden tablets to fruit pulp would kill wild yeasts and bacteria.

In summation, I suspect I will have to decide, considering the time factor for receiving the yeast hulls and the addition of fruit pulp and spices, to simply let the mead do its thing until the fermentation is totally stopped. Add the Potassium Sorbate to make sure the fermentation is completely stopped, rack it using the elelctric pumping system with filters, clarify it with Bentonite for three days, taste it and, if its good, bottle it, age it and sell it next year.

Would my adding fruit pulp with Camden tablets and spices after racking for three days before clarifying with Bentonite be inviting a contamination? Maybe skip the fruit pulp and just add the spices tea to avoid contamination?

The unexpected sluggish fermentation really threw my time calculations for adding fruit pulp and spices out of whack.

BTW, the CO2 is bubbling out of the air lock at 3 1/2 minute intervals.

It just occurred to me to mention that the space in which the fermentor is has an average all day temperature of 86 degrees Fahrenheit.

Regarding that current hydrometer reading, I'm a bit tired now and would like to take it tomorrow morning when I am fresh and, besides, I don not want to interrupt the fermentation because I noticed that each time I opened the tank for aeration or adding Yeast Energizer, the fermentation would take long hours to start up again.

Keep that feedback coming. It's 8:54 PM Caribbean time. I will check Got Mead forums again at about 10:00 PM and again in the morning. Thanks everybuddy...

 

[TAKeyser]

46 Gallons of Honey equal 552 lbs so you are looking at a Potential Original Gravity on that size batch at somewhere around 1.175 (about 23% abv potential) and that's not counting the fruit pulp. The White Labs Sweet Mead Yeast is said to give about a 15% abv tolerance, so there is a good chance that you have maxed out the yeast (if maxed your current Gravity will be around 1.060, which is extremely sweet).

As for boiling the Yeast, yes you can use your leftover yeast. I usually just use Fleischmans Bakers Yeast, which you can pick up cheap at any grocery store.

The airlock activity you are seeing could be slow fermentation or it could be the natural degassing process.

Lastly, I would use the bentonite to get as much to drop out of suspension as possible before you filter.

 

[Chevette Girl]

Regarding that current hydrometer reading, I'm a bit tired now and would like to take it tomorrow morning when I am fresh and, besides, I don not want to interrupt the fermentation because I noticed that each time I opened the tank for aeration or adding Yeast Energizer, the fermentation would take long hours to start up again.

The must has an amount of CO2 that it can hold when left to its own devices, and once it reaches that threshhold, it starts releasing it, making bubbles. Every time you agitate it, you knock extra CO2 out of solution and it just takes a while for the yeast to make enough CO2 to replace it. It's not that you've ticked off the yeast and they've stopped doing their job, more like they're slowly filling a bucket that eventually overflows, and you just emptied it on them, takes a while to fill up enough to start overflowing.

And if you add powdered DAP or energizer and the yeast starts fizzing like mad, it's not because it's "happy", you've just added nucleation sites, which are things that allow the CO2 come out of the must in a rush, like adding a spoonful of sugar to a carbonated drink...

And without a SG reading, we can't tell you if it's too early or too late to add fruit or consider stabilizing or fining it.

If your fermentation room is that warm, you probably WANT a slow fermentation, otherwise it could generate too much heat inside from the chemical processes. And don't ever try using Lalvin D-47 yeast.

If you've got pH strips, check the pH while you're getting the SG in the morning, let us know and we'll troubleshoot for you

... and if it's sticking around 1.060 like TAKeyser calculated, you will probably want to either dilute it with water (and it might drop a few percent more by itself) or add the fruit juice (which will also dilute it because it's got higher water content than the original must).

And if you're leaving it at that, even if you leave it there for a while while you figure out what you're doing with it, it's so sweet and so alcoholic that it'll be very resistant to infection...

 

[HowardVic]

Hi Chevette Girl et al...

Just a quick reply before taking the hydrometer and ph readings and I will return to this forum later.

A good night's rest does wonders. I am boiling the Rosemary leaves and slightly heated Cardamom seeds. Maybe I could use the Rosemary and Cardamom tea in response to your advice regarding the following:

"...and if it's sticking around 1.060 like TAKeyser calculated, you will probably want to either dilute it with water (and it might drop a few percent more by itself) or add the fruit juice (which will also dilute it because it's got higher water content than the original must)..."

Thanks and Later...

 

[Chevette Girl]

Sounds like a plan. Don't forget to check the SG before you add the herb-water and after!

 

[HowardVic]

Readings: Ph paper & Triple Scale Hydrometer

Today, May 25th at 11:05 AM, the readings on the must were as follows:

Triple Scale Hydrometer:
Percent sugar balling - 21%
Potential Alcohol by Volume - 11.5%
SP GR - 85

PH - between yellow weakly acid PH 6.0 and orange stongly acid PH 4.0

BTW, when I took a pic of the must inside the fermentor the smell was VERY strong alcohol content. I thought my nostrils would catch fire. ;D Not a bad smell at all but not what the finished mead should smell like. Uffff!

Can I place the pic in this forum text format or is it against the rules?

On taking the pic, I saw some Passion Fruit pulp and seeds floating on the top and remembered that I added about a 2 -3 cups of the fruit pulp before stopping because it ocurred to me that I did not want to interfere with the full force of fermentation process and decided to add the fruit pulp 2 or 3 weeks later into the fermentation.

I felt relieved that there wasn't any odd colored or smelling scum/contamination floating on top of the must. Whew!

Let me know when it's safe/best to add the fruit pulp and spice tea.

There are almost two gallons of the Rosemary Cardamom tea cooling on the stove. Really powerful fragrance. Let me know if I should add this spice tea (after straining it) full strength as is or if more water is necessary to be added to it and if it should be added at room temperature of 86 degrees Fahrenheit.

Thanks.

 

[Chevette Girl]

Yes, you can add your photo into the text. If it doesn't work directly, you can insert the image link if you host it somewhere else (I use facebook because I can never get photos to upload, it always tells me they exceed the allotted size even when they aren't too big), just remember to resize it first so we don't have to scroll sideways, that's about the only general rule we have for putting photos within your text.

As for the fruit pulp, you can put that in anytime. If you're at 1.085 for SG it's within 20 points of where TAKeyser figures it'll stop anyway... there's nothing wrong with putting it in now, your pH is fine, just take a reading before and after so you know how much you diluted your must, same as when you add your herb water.

As for amounts, I can't really help with that, you'll have to do it by taste... I recommend adding the fruit pulp, checking the SG, then adding a quarter of your herb water, then take a taste... add enough that you can taste it, in small amounts with frequent tastings until you think it's enough, then check the SG again.

Good luck!

Oh, and that burning nostrils thing? A lot of that is carbon dioxide buildup on top of the must, or at least that's what I've found, having been knocked on my butt by that a time or two! Once the fermentation's all done, the smell will calm down a bit, then the taste will mellow with aging.

 

[TAKeyser]

To add to what CG already stated, by diluting your must your final gravity will go lower than my stated 1.060. It won't go down a lot with just an extra couple gallons, but it will go down.

 

[HowardVic]

in summation...?

Hi TAKeysar and Chevette Girl. Thanks for all your advice.

In summation, the fermentation is reaching its natural end and the mead will end up very sweet and it's safe to add the Passion Fruit pulp and spices tea.

What's the range of the final alcohol content going be? I was hoping for 14%.

After adding the fruit pulp and spices tea, should I expect the fermentation to continue at a slow pace or come to a complete halt? How long should I leave the must in the fermentor before racking into a large food grade container I have on hand?

I could sanitize a metal strainer, scoop out all the fruit pulp possible, then, transfer the must to the racking container using the electric pump with the three filters. Add the Bentonite wait about three days and filter pump the clarified mead back into the freshly sanitized fermentor in order to more easily bottle the must. Age it. Taste it in six month's time.

All the above could be done tomorrow morning???

I will check in later. I greatly appreciate your guys' coaching. Thanks.

 

[Chevette Girl]

I would recommend leaving it on the fruit for a week at least. By then just about any goodness that the yeast is going to get out of it, they will have gotten.

And then, rack it off whatever fruit has settled out and out from under whatever's still floating, and then let everything settle out for a few weeks before racking again, I would not recommend trying to filter it as long as there's fruit pulp in there, all you'll do is gunk up your filter really quickly. If there are a lot of seeds and big pulp bits, a strainer might be useful, but straining it does increase your chances for picking up too much oxygen or exposing it to other organisms you don't want in there.

Because of dilution, you may actually see the rate of fermentation (drop in SG rather than your bubble rate) increase over time for a little while before it finally peters out, I would be surprised if it stopped altogether, although as I mentioned before, it might take a few hours or a day or two for the yeast to make enough CO2 that it comes out the airlock.

If everything goes well, your must should have an approximate alcohol content of your yeast's tolerance, so it probably won't go more than 15%. And unless your yeast goes psycho on you, it should still be pretty sweet by the time it's completely done.

 

[TAKeyser]

Hi TAKeysar and Chevette Girl. Thanks for all your advice.

In summation, the fermentation is reaching its natural end and the mead will end up very sweet and it's safe to add the Passion Fruit pulp and spices tea.

Yeah you are nearing the end of your yeasts tolerance, it should go for a little while longer so you are more than safe to add the Passion Fruit and spice tea. It's going to end up really sweet, High end of Dessert Style sweet.

What's the range of the final alcohol content going be? I was hoping for 14%.

Right now you are sitting right around 11.5% ABV and your yeast has a tolerance of 15% so like I said your fermentation will probably continue slowly for a little while longer

After adding the fruit pulp and spices tea, should I expect the fermentation to continue at a slow pace or come to a complete halt? How long should I leave the must in the fermentor before racking into a large food grade container I have on hand?

Like I said above fermentation should continue and will probably pick up some due to the dilution of the must. Check your gravity again in a week and see where it is sitting, hopefully it has dropped.

I could sanitize a metal strainer, scoop out all the fruit pulp possible, then, transfer the must to the racking container using the electric pump with the three filters. Add the Bentonite wait about three days and filter pump the clarified mead back into the freshly sanitized fermentor in order to more easily bottle the must. Age it. Taste it in six month's time.

Give it some time to finish up before racking it anywhere. You will usually see the suggestion of wait until you get the same hydrometer reading for 3 straight times. After that scoop out as much of the pulp as you can. I would use the Bentonite before I thought of filtering. The Bentonite will get everything to drop out of suspension which will prevent your filter pads from getting clogged. From experience I can say that clogged pads lead to a sticky messy situation.

So if it was me I would scoop out the pulp and either add the bentonite straight to the fermentor or pump it to your container (without using a filter) and add the bentonite to that container. After the Bentonite has done its thing I would rack and filter it back to another container or back into the fermenting vessel to age for a while.

 

[HowardVic]

Evening TAKeysar & Chevette Girl.

I am thawing out the frozen fruit pulp overnight and tomorrow I will add it with the spices tea to the must. Do you think it's necessary to add Camden tablets to the fruit pulp to prevent wild yeast and the like?

I will strain the spices tea tonight and boil it again tomorrow to make sure it's sterile, cool it and add with the thawed out fruit pulp.

You guys are a great asset. One thing is doing one gallon batches for fun another thing is 116 gallons for winning one's "daily bread." I should put two bottles away until I have the permits to export and send them to you as a gift for your expert advice. At least, they should be two years aged by then.

Later...

 

[TAKeyser]

Evening TAKeysar & Chevette Girl.

I am thawing out the frozen fruit pulp overnight and tomorrow I will add it with the spices tea to the must. Do you think it's necessary to add Camden tablets to the fruit pulp to prevent wild yeast and the like?

I've been known very being overly cautious so adding Campden Tablets to the fruit juice/pulp and waiting the 24 hours before adding wouldn't hurt, that being said it probably isn't necessary considering the environment that you are adding it to.

 

[HowardVic]

deed is done

Thawed out the Passion Fruit pulp, boiled the White Labs Sweet Mead Yeast and let it cool in the fridge, did the same to the spices tea and let them in gently into the must and stirred slowly with a large plastic paddle to avoid aerating.

The Triple Scale Hydrometer readings are the same as the first time earlier today. The Ph is the same between yellow and orange.

Will watch the air lock until Monday when I will take hydrometer and PH readings again.

Too pooped to pop. Not going out tonight.

BTW, I forgot to add the Camden tablets. Good thing.

Good night all. Thanx. Lights out.

*Click* light on.

Night Cap: Anything worth doing is worth doing to excess.

Lights out. "Click*

 

[HowardVic]

Ups?

Good morning all.

It's been approximately 10 hours since I added the fruit pulp, boiled yeast and spices tea, however, there is no CO2 action in the air lock.

I hope I didn't kill the fermentation.

I have a 5 gallon batch made with left over of the same White Labs Sweet Mead Yeast that has been fermenting for 7 days. Is adding it to the must to jump start it a bad idea?

Later...

 

[Chevette Girl]

I have a 5 gallon batch made with left over of the same White Labs Sweet Mead Yeast that has been fermenting for 7 days. Is adding it to the must to jump start it a bad idea?

Check your SG again and see if it's dropped any since your last measurement, lack of airlock activity could mean that it got a really really good degassing and hasn't built up enough CO2 yet, or possibly the lid isn't a tight seal (I have one fermentation bucket that never ever bubbles and one that only does sometimes). It's also possible your yeast has had enough and the fruit juice and herb water didn't dilute it enough to make a difference. But to know for sure, check your SG. Sometimes it can be sneaky and drop without giving you any other clues that anything's going on!

And no, adding some vigorously fermenting stuff to a batch to kickstart it is not a bad idea, I've done it myself.

 

[HowardVic]

Good Morning Chevette Girl et al.

I woke up last night around 2:00 AM to check the air lock activity. Totally still. I woke up again this morning around 5:20 AM and checked the air lock. After, approximately 32 hours after adding the fruit pulp, boiled yeast and spices tea, the air lock was completely still. Later, this morning at around 8:30 AM, I think the air lock's part that resembles an inverted plastic cup may have risen just the slightest. Maybe. I will check it out at noon and if it has risen more, I will not follow through with the decision I made this morning at 5:20 AM to remove the fruit pulp today before it host a bacterial contamination (my worst fear) with a strainer and rack the must, add the Potassium Sorbate to make sure there's no chance of fermentation (yeah, right), wait 24 hours, add the Bentonite to clarify, wait four days and bottle.

What do you think?

 

[TAKeyser]

I went back to the beginning of the thread and it looks as though you started the Mead on May 10th (your first post was on the 17th and you said it has been fermenting for 7 days), so you're not even 3 weeks into the process yet. It seems like you are trying to rush this batch, I say give it some time, stop watching the airlock and trust in your Hydrometer. Don't make any decisions yet. You have 16 gallons of headspace in your vessel and it is going to take a while for your must and that headspace to become saturated with CO2 again, so if you are degassing and taking readings like you should be doing you may not see activity again. Airlocks are not indicators of fermentation.

Does the temperature drop at night where you are? If so that change would mean the liquid can now hold more CO2 and where would that CO2 come from? the headspace which means the must now needs to create more CO2 to compensate what the must just took in. When it warms up the must can't hold as much so it releases everything and you will get a brief flurry of airlock activity. If you aren't watching it at that moment you will miss the activity. None of that has anything to do with fermentation which is why we say that the airlock is not reliable and to use your hydrometer. It is not finished until you get consistent reading on the Hydrometer over a matter of days if not weeks.

 

[HowardVic]

Hi TAKeysar.

I didn't want to take anymore hydrometer readings in order to not affect the CO2 build up and resulting air lock activity.

I will take hydrometer readings at 1:00 PM, 5:00 PM and 10:00 PM.

Yes, the temperature does drop but only about 5 degrees or so. I have noticed that the stick-on thermomter adhered to the side of the fermentor has been at a constant 86 degrees Fahrenheit for the last two weeks while the thermometer on the wall of the kitchen has been at a constant 89 F.

I will move the fermentor closer to the air conditioner for my next 116 gallon batch in two months' time and put a partition to make the area around the fermentor in the large kitchen smaller to make sure the AC makes a difference where it's needed.

Or, maybe go to Home Depot to check out a portable AC to be placed in the partitioned area close to the fermentor which is on a concrete platform a bit distant from the AC on the opposite wall.

What a trip...

Thanks for the feedback. Later...

 

[HowardVic]

A "bit" late for my aforementioned scheduled hydrometer and PH readings.

At 4:26 PM today, the readings were the same as for yesterdays reading at 11:00 AM and 7:50 PM, being as follows:

Triple Scale Hydrometer Readings:
% sugar balling - 21%
potential alcohol by volune - 11.0
SP GR - 85
PH - btween yellow 6.0 and orange 4.0 (maybe a bit more orange but could be imagined).

Tastes good though very cloudy orange in color.

Next reading should be around 10:00 PM tonight.

Thanks for your continued help.

Later...