Spices & Fruit Pulp

[HowardVic]

Greetings Chevette Girl and TAKeyser.

I choose to age in bulk instead of in bottles because the mead is less effected by temperature changes when it is in bulk and it gives the flavours in the mead more time to meld together making for more consistency between bottles.

Great info. I think I will do likewise. Thanks, TAKeyser.

"...rack at least twice, because not everything will have dropped out at the first racking and I'm a total klutz and always end up stirring up the crud on the bottom if I bottle when there's any sediment in the carboy so I often rack a week or two before I bottle, especially if I used a fining agent..."

Useful detail, Chevette Girl. Yes, I've been reminding myself that I will have to keep the end of the hose far away from the sludge on the bottom of the fermenter when transferring. Thanks.

1:51 PM. Temp in the Caribbean is lower 90s, breeze blowing, more mangos rotting in the back yard than we can eat and give away to family, friends and neighbors. Mango mead? Maybe for personal consumption but nothing I want to slush around in at this point after the Passion Fruit episode. Maybe next mango season. It's time for a nap. Later... Everybuddy...

 

[wayneb]

Mango mead is actually really good - especially if you add some of the fruit in secondary, to preserve the more subtle citrusy, piney aromatics.

But mango mush (the gunk resulting from fermentation) needs to be managed with a fermentation bag, or some other way, or you end up losing about 30% of your total volume to liquid trapped in the residue.

 

[TheAlchemist]

With all the engineer Mazers I'm aMazed none have figured out a simple means of using centrifugal force to extract the liquid. There must be a way.

 

[wayneb]

Well, it's gotta be a cheap and reliable way, too! ;D

That leaves out most lab centrifuges, which are far too expensive and which work on much smaller quantities of material. I've seen posts on other boards in years past where people have tried various things, including the spin cycle on old washing machines, to extract fresh fruit liquids from crushed pulp - but I don't want to be subjecting my meads to any rough handling (not to mention infection exposure potential) like that.

 

[Noe Palacios]

Mango mead is actually really good - especially if you add some of the fruit in secondary, to preserve the more subtle citrusy, piney aromatics.

But mango mush (the gunk resulting from fermentation) needs to be managed with a fermentation bag, or some other way, or you end up losing about 30% of your total volume to liquid trapped in the residue.

All my experiences with tropical fruits have had bad results and for a long time I was asking to myself - Why? - The only good answer that comes to me is that I bought the fruits at our marketplace, which means: no hygiene, no ripening control, no cold chain ... nothing that could help me to get a decent mead.

But I didn't give up, yet. There is a company 40 miles from home that exports mangos to the US and I'm planning to buy two or three boxes of size rejected mangos.

I'm planning to extract the must's juice with one kitchen screwpress.

Then I'm going to freeze the cake. When the time comes I'm going to place it in a muslin bag and ad to the stabilized mead during the 2nd racking. The idea of doing this is that I should get back some (not much) mago flavor to the mead and also I should raise sugars naturally (I usually make dry or semisweet).

Well that's it. In three years I'll let you know what happened.

Saludos,

 

[wayneb]

Noe, that sounds like a good plan. If the fruit are ripe (but not overripe) you should be able to press enough juice for primary to provide a detectable mango presence in the finished mead, even if you don't use the pressed cake to add more mango later. I suppose we will need to wait three years to see if the plan really works.

 

[HowardVic]

Greetings Noe, wayneb, TheAlchemist et al.

Yes, wayneb, mango does have a piney taste I like very much. I collected some mango tree sap to see if it burns like incense. Forgot about it. Even where I tucked it away to dry. Green mangos set off a coughing fit. I prefer the really ripe ones in our back yard they call Cuban mangos which are a bright orange yellow color cold from the fridge. Yeah, I can really wallow in it. Oink.

As I mentioned from the begining, my intent was that my mead would have a 14% alcohol content. If as TAKeyser said, the honey/sugar content in my mead is high but that the yeast has run its course, could I introduce another batch of liquid yeast into the mead to start a new fermentation process that would convert sufficient honey in the mead to raise the alcohol content, hopefully, nearer to my desired 14% mark?

Good night. Later, Everybuddy...

 

[Chevette Girl]

could I introduce another batch of liquid yeast into the mead to start a new fermentation process that would convert sufficient honey in the mead to raise the alcohol content, hopefully, nearer to my desired 14% mark?

Just dumping in another batch of yeast isn't likely to do what you want. It may not work at all but you could try making an acclimated starter, that might get the new yeast over the fact that they're already sitting around in alcohol.

 

[HowardVic]

Hi Chevette Girl.

Thanks for the feedback. I have done some Google searching regarding acclimated starters but I need to find more specific results for fermentations that are not necessarily stuck but completed to see if the high honey/sugar content will feed a new batch of yeast and produce a second fermentation that will raise the alcohol content closer to 14%.

Later...

 

[Chevette Girl]

The way I'd do it is rehydrate the yeast according to the package, give it its 15 minutes or whatever, then take an amount of must equal to the water used (ie, if it was 1/4 cup, add 1/4 cup must), wait until you see activity (foaming), should be about half an hour? then add 1/2 cup of must... every time you see activity, double the starter's volume, I make a litre of starter for a gallon, a gallon of starter for a 5-gal batch. For a restart like this one I'd want to try to get as close to 1/4 of the volume as possible. Or put the starter into another container the same size (once it's big enoug to cover the bottom, of course) and just keep doubling the amount until you've added all the must... and I'd use a yeast with a higher tolerance then 14% because it's already going to have a rough time of it.

 

[TAKeyser]

HowardVic,

I know that you have a ton of headspace in your fermenter (119 gallons in a 132 gallon container) you could try and dilute your must with 5-10 gallons of water, which would lower the alcohol content giving your yeast room to re-reach their alcohol tolerance. It could restart the fermentation and even if it didn't it would lower that gravity and cut down some of those residual sugars. 1.080 is awfully high, I've seen meads have a starting gravity in that range.

 

[HowardVic]

Hi Chevette Girl and TAKeyser.

@Chevette Girl - Rehydrate? Originally, I used a liquid yeast so, I guess, I should stick to liquid yeast.

@TAKeyser - If it's been so long that the hydrometer readings have not changed at all, then, it's safe to assume the fermentation has most probably ceased altogether, although, I have read comments that yeast have been known to suddenly kick up and start fermenting again after several week or even months if they weren't stabilized.

It's been very busy for me with family obligations and comparing alarm systems (having an alarm placed on Saturday) and I still have not transferred/racked the mead from the fermenter to the other container which I will do, hopefully, on Saturday, after the alarm system is installed and I will be left completely alone and undisturbed.

TAKeyser, since I have a nagging fear of contamination if I don't take out the last of the fruit pulp and rack ASAP, do you think I have time enough to test a small batch of the must and dilute it with water, add a bit of liquid yeast in a packet I have in the fridge to see if fermentation resumes and, if it does, go ahead with the full 119 gallons? The liquid yeast I have in the fridge is different from the one I used originally from White Labs, it is the WYeast, 4184 Sweet Mead, "...direct pitch activator for wine, mead, cider, distilling and saké, 70 billion yeast cells...% pure liquid yeast plus nutrient..." Enough to inoculate up to 6 gallons of must, juice, wort or seed mash.

I just remembered, I only have that one packet of liquid yeast so if I used a portion of it to test a sample of the must from the fermenter the larger portion left over would go to waste and not be usable for the must in the fermenter.

Is it ok two mix to liquid yeasts from different companies by adding six gallons of distilled water with the full packet of WYeast for sweet mead to the must in the fermenter which was originally fermented with the liquid yeast for sweet mead from White Labs?

Maybe, it's best to play it safe and accept the 11% alcohol content I have now and follow the all advice for hitting the 14% alcohol content in the next must a month or two from now.

Thanks for all the feedback, Everybuddy. Later...

 

[TAKeyser]

I personally don't think you'll get much out of pitching more of the so-called "Sweet Mead" yeasts. If you are going to attempt to restart this fermentation I would go with either Uvaferm 43 or EC-1118 which were probably what you should have used to begin with. Be sure to make a healthy acclimated starter using enough yeast for your batch size.

How many smack packs of the sweet mead yeast did you use when you initially started the batch? That size batch I'd say 20-25 should have been used. From a business point of view using Lalvin yeast will only cost you 1/3 of your what you are currently using and from my experience will provide more consistent result.

 

[HowardVic]

Hi TAKeyser.

If you are going to attempt to restart this fermentation I would go with either Uvaferm 43 or EC-1118 which were probably what you should have used to begin with. Be sure to make a healthy acclimated starter using enough yeast for your batch size.

How many smack packs of the sweet mead yeast did you use when you initially started the batch? That size batch I'd say 20-25 should have been used. From a business point of view using Lalvin yeast will only cost you 1/3 of your what you are currently using and from my experience will provide more consistent result.

Originally, I used an amount sufficient for the 119 gallon must of White Labs Liquid Brewers Yeast, Sweet Mead Yeast, WLP720, Size: Large (200 gallons), Volume: 1800 mls . From what was left over of the White Labs yeast, I used some to jump start slow fermentation somewhere after May 23rd mixing the liquid yeast with yeast nutrient and another portion of the White Labs left over liquid yeast for a five gallon test batch must mixed with jasmine and rose extracts, no fruit pulp.

I guess, with hind sight, I should have used the whole 1,800 mls of the liquid yeast with the 119 gallons of must loaded with all that honey but since the whole content was labeled for 200 gallons, I only used enough for the 119 gallons of must in the fermentor using the scale embossed on the container of liquid yeast as measuring guide.

Important Question: Do I have sufficient time to rack the mead, let it sit for two weeks until I can order and receive more liquid yeast with which to make an acclimated starter and maybe contact White Labs for their input in the matter or is the alcohol content of 11% likely to kill any yeast added to the must?

Later... Good night, all...

 

[TAKeyser]

Important Question: Do I have sufficient time to rack the mead, let it sit for two weeks until I can order and receive more liquid yeast with which to make an acclimated starter and maybe contact White Labs for their input in the matter or is the alcohol content of 11% likely to kill any yeast added to the must?

Later... Good night, all...

Like I said I don't think you'd be able to get the med fermenting again using the same strain that you originally fermented with. Your best best is to use one of the more tolerant strains that I recommended and even that isn't a guarantee that it will restart.

 

[HowardVic]

Thanks TAKeyser.

I need to contact the manufacturers of the yeasts you suggested in lieu of the original strain of yeast used in the 119 gallon must to see if they sell their yeasts in larger containers sufficient for the 119 gallon must.

I suspect I will most probably decide on accepting the 11% alcohol for this batch as is.

Since comments have been made that, after racking, mead can be left for extended months bulk aging, I guess I have a window of opportunity regarding time to explore my options, say, for the next two weeks, hopefully, sufficient time to get information, ponder a decision, make and receive order for additional fermentation ingredients.

What a trip...

Again, thanks. Later...

 

[TAKeyser]

I get the yeast from MoreWine. They sell it in 80 gram and 500 gram packages so large enough sizes suitable for your needs.

 

[Jas53]

I get the yeast from MoreWine. They sell it in 80 gram and 500 gram packages so large enough sizes suitable for your needs.

How long is the larger quantities viable if kept in refrigerator?

 

[TAKeyser]

How long is the larger quantities viable if kept in refrigerator?

Not long enough to make it a good deal to purchase on your own. You could probably get away with buying 80 grams, but the 500 gram packages would probably go to waste since legally you can only make between 100-200 gallons a year depending on how many adults live in the house. Depending on which strains ordered and if we found a way to vacumn seal them we could organize a local buy since there's 8 or 9 of us in the area, something to discuss when we get together next.

 

[HowardVic]

Hi TAKseyser et al.

I have all the federal/ATF-TTB and local state and municipal licenses and permits. This is it. The mead I have is what I am going to sell if it passes my taste test sometime in December. I will have to notify all authorities concerned as to any changes in the formula. The important thing is to have a good tasting product that will sell. The blend of Passion Fruit, which I grow myself as well as the rosemary which I also grow and the cardamom is imported, makes a sweet, fragrant mead that has been tasted by a few people who are wine connoisseurs and in the rum industry and they told me to go for it. I am. The honey is local.

Good thing I haven't had the labels made yet. I designed them but they won't be necessary until next year. It's a small cottage industry set up nothing the Rothschild's or Napa Valley need worry about. Let me see if I can figure out the picture posting format of this forum so I can post a pic of the wine racks I had made later in the week. Seems that icon of a mountain "Insert Image" is only for URLS and I need to upload pics from my pc.

I have contacted the manufacturers of the fermenters and I am waiting for their reply in order to pay for two more 132 gallon fermenters.

Good thing I have Peptobismol and Alkazelter on hand.

Later...