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The Infamous Bread Yeast Question!

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Are you using the bread yeast just to stay in period with the recipe? Some of my re-enactment friends say that people do that. I always have work when some sort of re-enactment is going on so I have no personal experience nor been able to ask.

Most of the people who have used bread yeast here claim it leaves a cloudy product... did you find that to be true?

I am glad to hear that you had no off tastes from your first batch. I would be interested if leaving the yeast at the bottom would create off tastes in your second batch. You'll have to let us know.
 
MY FIRST BATCH IS DEFINETELY NOT AS CLEAR AS MY OTHER MEADS BUT NOT CONCLUSIVE AT THIS TIME THAT IT IS THE YEAST. ON THE LAST BATCH I WILL KNOW FOR SURE IN THIS NEXT MONTH. THE FIRST HAD NO YEASTIE TASTE YET BUT IS NOT CRYSTAL CLEAR AND STILL WORKING SLOWLY SO THAT MAY BE REASON IT IS NOT CLEAR. I PUT TOO MUCH ACID IN IT AND FERMENTATION IS SLOW SLOW SLOW. WILL KEEP YOU POSTED.
 
Thirsty Viking
I have used sorbat a few times for just that purpose...a mead made with champagne yeast finished too dry so i hit it with sorbate and sweetened it up. I have two problems with this though. First of all i like to use all natual ingriendents whenever possible (i use fruit juice both to add nutrients and adjust pH) and second, i just prefer my mead sparkling! if you have any advice on how to make a sparkling sack it would be greatly appreciated. Its simple to make a still mead sweet, and its simple to make a dry/semi-dry mead sparkling, but to get both a high residual suagar AND a proper amount of carbonation in the same bottle... that i find to be quite a challange.
And i'd just like to comment on your point about aging...i agree that i have had many meads that tasted great right out of primary, however, without exception, they are always better with age.
 
You know, people joke about the waiting being the hardest part of making mead. But this is definitly true. How the heck do you guys do it? Does it get easier once you have a couple of bottles you can drink or if you have a lot to do? This is killing me. Probably one of the reasons I am the highest poster on this board... everytime I turn around I wonder how much longer till I can drink my first batch... which is looking pretty good, by the way. I still want to give it at least one more week (maybe two) before I really draw judgement on it.
 
JoeM said:
Thirsty Viking
I have used sorbat a few times for just that purpose...a mead made with champagne yeast finished too dry so i hit it with sorbate and sweetened it up. I have two problems with this though. First of all i like to use all natual ingriendents whenever possible (i use fruit juice both to add nutrients and adjust pH) and second, i just prefer my mead sparkling! if you have any advice on how to make a sparkling sack it would be greatly appreciated. Its simple to make a still mead sweet, and its simple to make a dry/semi-dry mead sparkling, but to get both a high residual suagar AND a proper amount of carbonation in the same bottle... that i find to be quite a challange.
Click to expand...

hehe there are two answers.
First answer is to gamble on Bottle bombes based on how far your S.G. has dropped. Use champagne bottles, wire the corks and pray.

Second answer is to force carbonate. Generally this involves a kegging system. If you want to bottle it, chil the keg so the mead loses less CO2 and fill bottle from the tap. Of course if you have a kegging system just leave your Sack mead in the keg and dispense as desired. for sparkling Sack mead on Tap.

Check the homebrew NG for all the information you could want on converting an old frezer and obsolete sodapop CO2 systems into a nifty Kegorator. I think these instructions are also on the Frugal Brewer website.

JoeM said:
Thirsty Viking
"And i'd just like to comment on your point about aging...i agree that i have had many meads that tasted great right out of primary, however, without exception, they are always better with age.
Click to expand...

This is hard with the first few batches, ramp up your hobby... as soon as you have enough batches in process, you will begin to accumulate age. (or you'll throw great parties :-)

My first Cyser I was Drinking from the primary bucket it was so tasty lol, had to get it under glass to let it finish fermenting. :o ;D ::) :P

For your first few batches there is little hope if they are any good.

Today I just bottled 54 bottle of peah melomel and Blueberry Sack Cyser( 40 375ml bottles and 14 750 ml bottles)

I have another 12 Gallons in carboys right now.
3 Gallon blueberry Sack Cyser ready to bottle. 6 m/o (months old)
3 Gallon Blueberry Melomel semi dry ready to bottle. 5 m/o

6 Gallon Chocolate Rasberry mead needs to age to eliminate the bitter oils from the cocoa powder, it has it's first birthday in bulk aging in February, then I bottle March 1. I was told not to even taste it before 1 year because of these oils. I rack it tomarrow add sorbate and top off with Rasberry Syrup.

Tomarrow I start a 7 gallon Mapplesyrup and Honey mead.
On newyears eve I start a 4 gallon Blackberry mead, and a blended honey sack mead later in January (Buckweat honney on order)

I also started the day with 15 bottles of orange melomel 10 m/o

Of course it is the christmass season, so several of these bottle end up as gifts, parted with 2-750's and 7-375's as christmass gifts tonight, and have 7-750's and 4-375's earmarked for immeadiate dispersal on Christmass day.

I know people who have 12 - 30+ carboys active at one time. depending on what thier need is for gifts entertaining and personal consumption.

Right now my Peach melomel I bottled today is Harsh, I needed the carboy to rack the Blueberry Sack cyser, or It would still be bulk ageing. I had a 6.6 gallon batch and i Bottled 3.6, At this point I ran out of pretty Blue Hock Gift Bottles.
 
Wow, I can only imagine how it would be to have that much stuff around. I could see why it would be easier after the first several batches. If you want to try some you crack a bottle you started months ago and it would take your mind off the stuff not ready.

But still this seems very hard to me. I know I will have tons left over from this batch when it is done (since I am not a huge drinker) but until then it is killing me. Eventually I am going to have to bring a couple of gallons to some of my old college buddies and throw a party.
 
Eventually you are going to have to get a few more carboys. If your personal consumption is low, 2-3 in process total may do for you. You get 10-375ml bottle to the gallon, Roughly the size of a 12oz beer bottle. Figure the average batch will be 6 months before it is finished and ready to bottle. At least for my melomels I find this to be a good conservative average.

I live alone, so I bottle 2/3 of my mead in 375 ml bottles. At the strength I make my mead, All I need is one of these bottles, and I enjoy a mild buzz. I have the habbit of finishing what is in front of me.... so If i pop the cork on a 750, I'll drink it all. Just like I'll Clean my plate when I go out to eat, unless I ask for a to go box before I start so that i set aside a large portion of my meal up front.

Yes I have been known to rack a 750ml bottle to a 375, cork, and drink the remainder 8) but that is a pain :-X
 
The beer bottling suggestion seems pretty good to me. A 12oz bottle sounds about right for a single sitting. I want to have a few 750ml but they seem completely the wrong size. They are much too big to drink alone and when I want to share it is with too many people for just one bottle. I have some half gallon glass apple juice jars that would be perfect but I doubt I could ever get a good enough seal (that I would trust over time).

Eventually, I know I will have to expand. But right now I think one primary and one carboy will be okay. When I get something that will be in the carboy for a while I might try a batch or two of beer in the primary. I don't know if this might leave an off taste in the primary but I hope not. If I really start fiending to start another mead I will just suck it up and buy a second carboy.

But like I said I rarely drink. If I had 2-12oz bottles a week, I would probably consider that more than average. The only exception would be times when I have a week off school or some other event to celebrate.
 
Like I said in aim -- but repeat here in case anyone else is trying to follow -- I haven't bought it yet but I am planning on a 5 gallon carboy. When I went down to the brewshop I had a fairly long talk with the owner (about 30 minutes) about my budget and what I wanted to do. He convinced me that if I wanted to stay in budget (and be able to afford enough honey to start a batch now) I should build up my kit instead of buying it all at once. Since I won't need a carboy for at least a month why spend the cash now when I could be spending that on good quality honey? The guy was even honest enough to tell me that the honey he had in stock was good but $2-$3 more expensive than what I could find at the local beekeeper I knew about. I never made it to that beekeeper but that is another story.

So I bought a nice primary, with a drain spout which probably cost me an arm and a leg but oh well. The I got an airlock and two types of yeast. The guy threw in an extra pack of Lalvin EC1118 when I promised to pitch them both. A promise I wish I hadn't kept since I pitched both of them into a bucket of preservatives.

So, in a few weeks I will go down and buy a nice five gallon carboy, stopper, and airlock. Probably whatever else he thinks he might be able to get me to buy. I really think the guy is a good honest person who wants to see that I get started right and in my budget. But if he can throw in a carboy-cozie for $7 without me knowing, all the better.

[note: carboy-cozie is made up item -- didn't see one and he hasn't yet tried to sell me one. Imagine it would be something knitted in the shape of the carboy to keep it warm and dark. Which could be done with a plastic bag or just by leaving it in my closet where I plan on placing it.]
 
Some time this upcoming week I will go down an buy the next batch of equipment I need. I really have too much to do right now. Somehow I got stuck working Christmas Eve-Day 11pm-7am and not I need to work two doubles this weekend. Lots of hours to earn enough money to buy the stuff I never have time to pick up.

I looked at the bread yeast batch today and it looks good. Still not crystal clear but it is also still less than a month old. We'll see about how it turns out in the future.
 
Mead made with bread yeast will definitely clear on its own. If not, the fault is not the yeast. Both of mine are now clearing up nicely. Also the ancient mead I made and left on the lees for over 2 months without racking has no off taste from autolysis. I put all ingredients in a glass primary and left it alone to ferment and clear naturally. It was ready in a little over 2 months. Therefore, I must conclude that though there are better choices than bread yeast to use to make mead, with proper sanitatiion, it can be used with good results. I also have a friend who uses bread yeast to make his wine. He has been using bread yeast for many years. His methods are crude but for the most part his wines are crystal clear naturally with no filtering or clarifying agents. He said he does it the way his Father always did. No chemicals either but then again he never allows them to age over 6 months or so since he likes to drink it over the winter months.
 
Well my first batch hasn't completely cleared. The main reason this happened, I think, is not because of the yeast. Although there might be some still in suspension. I have read many recipes for cider and almost every one of them warns against heating the cider because it will cause a haze -- something about pectin and fruit. This stuff is still young since I started it slightly over one month ago. I broke open the remaining 2 liters tonight to see how it is coming along in response to your post.

It hasn't really changed much from the last time I posted. This is probably because not enough time has passed or because it matures really early. It is mostly apple juice which probably helps. Most ciders are drinkable pretty much right from the start. Again, there wasn't much honey in there -- 1lb per gallon. Also, the last time I opened the cap to release pressure was well over a week ago. There was very little then and no discernable pressure today. So most of the fermentation is complete but probably not all. I think I have pretty much come to my own conclusion about using bread yeast. It works. It might not be the best and it might not have some of the properties of the purer strains but it works.

In comparison to the Red Star Chapagne yeast being used for my hard cider the bread yeast does leave looser sediment and more of it. Well, the more of it statement might be subjective. The bread yeast also seems to start a lot faster. I make my yeast starters fifteen minutes before in a warm mixture similar to the must. When I pitched the bread yeast I had very vigorous activity within an hour or two. The Red Star took almost a day to really start. I was going to be able to discuss Lalvin EC1118 but like I mentioned I killed it.

Also, with all of these yeasts. They give pretty dry results. When it comes to bread yeast that might just be because I haven't used a high gravity must -- still no hydrometer -- but with the Champagne yeasts I can be pretty sure that is what they are meant to do. For this reason bread yeast would be a bad choice for someone who wanted a sweet drink. The stuff just doesn't know when to quit. Some people have reported ending with a very sweet drink which might mean that bread yeast varies or something killed it off. I would tend to think that the later is more likely when people use bread yeast because they are probably being slightly less careful about ingredients and methods. But I cannot rule out the former.

Anyway, this is where I am at right now. If anything changes you know I will post. ;-)
 
Eric Fenderson said:
Also, with all of these yeasts. They give pretty dry results. When it comes to bread yeast that might just be because I haven't used a high gravity must -- still no hydrometer -- but with the Champagne yeasts I can be pretty sure that is what they are meant to do. For this reason bread yeast would be a bad choice for someone who wanted a sweet drink. The stuff just doesn't know when to quit. Some people have reported ending with a very sweet drink which might mean that bread yeast varies or something killed it off. I would tend to think that the later is more likely when people use bread yeast because they are probably being slightly less careful about ingredients and methods. But I cannot rule out the former.

Anyway, this is where I am at right now. If anything changes you know I will post. ;-)
Click to expand...

1 pound honey per gallon of cider is a pretty low gravity must. I use two#/gallon and normal wine yeast can take that to dryness, ec-1118 yeast might handle 3#/gallon in Applejuice but i haven't mixed that, it will certainly take 2.5#/gallon to BONE DRY SG 0.994 in my batch. And it did that while being refrigerated trying to stop it.
 
Yes I know that 1lb/gallon is pretty low starting gravity. I bring that up because I have heard that higher gravity musts are harder on some yeasts and that is why I made the assumption that when bread yeast leaves almost a "sack" result with no real alcohol content that might be the cause.

More later... boss coming in right now.
 
ok..to get back to your original question...i am currently using breadyeast for my first 3 batches the largest of which is close to a gallon...me and my friends are testing out different stuff and from our collaborative research we have found out that- for bread yeast there is active dry and RapidRise (at least thats the selection i have)- RapidRise yeast can potentially make methanol instead of alcohol, but active dry will make alcohol. 2 of my batches are unfortunately half RapidRise since i found this out after i started them...as far as taste goes...i don't have a finished product yet, but what i have smells good and tastes ok...to answer the clarity of the mead question, they are cloudy, but the yeast or protein or whatever it is is settling and it is definately getting clearer...because my first batch was so small (a sobe bottle)...it finished primary fermentation in 24 hours and it is getting close to done (i'm not going to age it since its such a small batch and i'm itching to drink something)...i'll probably wait two more days before i give it the fridge/freezer treatment and drink it unless it obviously isn't done (I imagine i'll probably be tempted into drinking it anyway though)...i'll get back to you when it is "finished." ;)
 
i realize i was a little unclear with how i said it tasted...during primary fermentation it tasted like cheap wine leaving that good dull burn in the back of the throat and laxt night when i racked it tasted a little sour (note i added in some lemon juice the night before).
 
Okay, i don't know where you got your information on "Rapid Rise" yeast but it is misleading... very much so. No yeast will accidentally produce methanol instead of ethanol... they won't do this on purpose either. ALL yeast produce methanol as one of the by products of fermentation. The amount of methanol produced is much more a function of the ingredients than the strain of yeast. Yeast breaks down cellulose and fibers to form methanol mostly... you should never have to worry about how much you produce. In a simple beverage of 12-20% alc. by volume there isn't a high enough percentage to really harm you. The problem with how much methanol is present occures when you distill. This is because methanol has a lower boiling point than ethanol and will be the first thing out of the still. If you make 5 750ml bottles of booze from your still without dumping the first 100-150ml your first bottle might have dangerously high levels. Keep in mind... we are talking _almost_all_ the methanol from FIVE gallons of wine strength alcohol condensed into one 750ml bottle.

Not something you need to freak out about. If you don't want to use Rapid Rise because you plan on distilling (note: I could find no reference that stated this starin of yeast produced higher methanol percentages) then don't. But for wine it won't blind you. I just want to clear this up because it won't hurt you... don't worry about the batches that include it.

As a side note: when I make a starter with it, I have noticed no difference between the two once in the primary. The one thing I noticed was the rapid rise produced a large head in the started over twenty minutes -- enough to push a cloth and fork off the cup.

When it comes to the cheap wine taste... I noticed that early on also. I think it is just because whenever you drink a wine really early you know it is cheap. It hasn't smoothed or aged. Keep posting.
 
thanks for the info..now i know my first batches aren't ruined :)
 
i racked again and tasted...that is some potent sh*t...tastewise it wasn't all that sweet...I've rethought what i said earlier about drinking it because of how impatient i am...i'm going to wait for it to drop clear to see if it tastes any better when it is clear (i assume it would, and even better if i let it age...hopefully)...i'll give another update when it does drop clear...probably by next weekend since it is a very small batch
 
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