Things out of people's control that have an impact on Calontir's Guild

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

One of our nobility (I am not good at names and even worse at titles) just posted something to the listserve that is basically our Calontir brewing guild exhorting all of the kingdom's brewer's, regardless of rank, to become more active. I hope that it will help to renew interest. I plan to post on the listserve inviting the guild to become active here. I believe the Gotmead forum, even just the Calontir area, lends itself better to discussions than a listserve...

If I was to make an observation, it is that there is no synergy in our kingdom's brewer's guild. Some of the causes of this are things over which no one has control and that no one can change. As a ward of a household of brewers in the East Kingdom (House deLondres) and a member of Calontir, I have the opportunity to compare between two situations and hope to use the comparisons to bring about improvements here in Calontir.

The worst problem beyond our control that we have as a kingdom is one of physical distance. Calontir covers four large states (Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, and Iowa). So gathering brewers from around the kingdom is not an easy task since it is seven or eight hours travel from the corners of the kingdom to a central location like Kansas City. So having guild-wide get togethers to brew, meetings to discuss and plot and strategize, to teach, or to merely socialize just isn't going to happen more than once a year (at Lilies War for instance). And there is nothing that can be done to reduce the distances between members...

The one possibility might be the creation of brewing guilds at the Barony level, where geographic distances are reduced and regular meetings and get togethers are more practical.

 

[marundel]

The good news is that there are several Baronial level brewers guild: Forgotten Sea, Three Rivers, and Lonely Tower all have local guilds. The bad news is that they are only slightly more active at the local level than the kingdom guild is at the kingdom level. B3R is the only one that appears to do any organized brewing anymore, and there is not a lot of "hands across Calontir" between the local guilds.

It is exactly this situation which led to my exhortation to the kingdom guild as a whole. Even if Lilies only happens once a year, and even if only a few brewers show up at local events, there are few if any organized activities once those brewers do get together. Competitions...? Nearly non-existent, and poorly advertised when they do occur. File sharing (recipes, research, techniques, etc.)...? The list is silent 95% of the time, and then only used when someone seeks a specific answer to a specific question (e.g. where do I find flavored honey at a reasonable cost?)

Regardless of how we are organized throughout the kingdom, baronies, or shires, the bottom line is that the individuals need to be the ones to reach out and make things happen. One or two motivated people really can make a difference. --Madoc

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

The good news is that there are several Baronial level brewers guild: Forgotten Sea, Three Rivers, and Lonely Tower all have local guilds. The bad news is that they are only slightly more active at the local level than the kingdom guild is at the kingdom level. B3R is the only one that appears to do any organized brewing anymore, and there is not a lot of "hands across Calontir" between the local guilds.

I fly to New York state to attend brewing collegiums to get my fix...

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

Regardless of how we are organized throughout the kingdom, baronies, or shires, the bottom line is that the individuals need to be the ones to reach out and make things happen. One or two motivated people really can make a difference. --Madoc

I agree. For me, I wonder if the issue isn't one of empowerment. I know that sounds complex but one of the things that the brewer's guilds in other kingdoms have is a sort of autonomy and empowerment. From what I understand, our guilds (especially local ones) in Calontir aren't allowed to have ranks within the guild. So within the guild you are a nobody, leather mallet, silver hammer, or laurel.

I sat in on a discussion recently about the awarding of those levels within the Calontir. Several things were mentioned as problems within the kingdom as a whole that also apply to our brewer's guild. No set of standards. The "ever rising standard" where things that got current "GOA"? level members their laurel might not even get a current member considered for a silver hammer. The fact that some royalty are very sparse in their awarding of these sorts of items and other royalty sometimes are left to make up for the backlog. All of these lead to a confusion that only harms motivation within our kingdom and all of it's guilds.

I look at other kingdoms and can see what it takes to qualify to be a "student", "novice", "journeyman", "master", "guildmaster", and so on. The names may vary from kingdom to kingdom but the structure creates a well defined set of criteria for what is expected and how to qualify. This provides goals/incentives to the members at every level. Also, requirements such as having to present 5 or 10 gallons of good brew to qualify at a certain level presents the guild with wares to provide as largesse(sp?) to the kingdom.

Human nature, on the whole, is to desire recognition although for some a thank-you is adequate and for others it requires a piece of paper or kneeling on a pillow. Part of creating a synergy within Calontir's brewer's guild has to be giving the members a reason to do their brewing within the guild rather than with their non-SCA friends that brew. Why would a brewer give a gallon of fine mead for largesse when they can have a party with mundane friends and collect all sorts of recognition? Please, I ask you not to immediately attribute these desires to me individually, I am merely speaking about human nature...

Calontir currently has a lot of talent, a lot of interested people, a leader that gets drafted repeatedly until someone else volunteers to relieve them, and no synergy as an organization. Part of this is due to the fact that as a default of the socio-political structure of Calontir, the king and queen are the defacto heads of ALL of the guilds, whether they have an interest or not. Reality is that even a ruler that dedicated themselves entirely to service to all of the organizations in the kingdom would be spreading themselves rediculously thin so that nothing would get done or at least done well. So it is a no-win situation for them and not their fault.

So would Calontir consider empowering the guilds to have ranks apart from those of the kingdom? Dunno... kinda doubt it... It would require some some relinquishing of control to empower others outside of the normal GOA chain of command. Certainly someone could theoretically become a Master Brewer or Guildmaster without even getting a Leather Mallet in brewing. But I believe it would help to create a more active organization if there was reason within the guild itself for members to participate in the guild. Just a thought...

 

[WRATHWILDE]

The good news is that there are several Baronial level brewers guild: Forgotten Sea, Three Rivers, and Lonely Tower all have local guilds. The bad news is that they are only slightly more active at the local level than the kingdom guild is at the kingdom level. B3R is the only one that appears to do any organized brewing anymore, and there is not a lot of "hands across Calontir" between the local guilds.

Regardless of how we are organized throughout the kingdom, baronies, or shires, the bottom line is that the individuals need to be the ones to reach out and make things happen. One or two motivated people really can make a difference. --Madoc

First off... Welcome Marundel glad to have you aboard.

These are some of the problems we hope the Kingdom Brew forums will help remedy. I hope our enthusiasm on these forums helps rekindle the fire in those less active brew guilds, but we need to get the word out. Any contacts you still have (and this refers to all Gotmead members) please don't hesitate to invite them here to the Kingdom forums.

Wrathwilde

 

[WRATHWILDE]

I wonder if the issue isn't one of empowerment...

Excellent points Pewter. Well done in fact!

From what I've seen, and this is limited, you have to be well connected in the social/political structure of a kingdom to be recognized. Basically your case needs to be put forward by some one "Qualified" to recommend you (someone who has reached/surpassed that distinction level themselves) and friendly enough with the Royalty to bend their ear for you.

Wrathwilde

 

[Oskaar]

Sounds to me like it's time for a bit of a revolt.

Pewter, you did an excellent job of articulating the issues as you see them. Mayhap you can organize some of your brethren to just do it. While I'm not a member of the SCA, organizationally it sounds like the executive management team is "hording" authority over too many things to do an acceptable job in any of them.

In those instances it's been my experience that the ones who sieze the opportunity to organize and become the de facto "knowledge workers" end up running that particular section of the business.

Worst they can do is fire you, and in my case, if executive/company management isn't performing to the standard I expect, I don't want to be a part of that organization/company.

Best of luck,

Oskaar

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

WW and Oskaar,

I appreciate your comments and support but I'd ask you to be patient and allow those of us in Calontir to discuss our situation before creating some type of revolt. Please allow us to have our discussions and decide a path of action. Please be patient as this discussion will take time, maybe years.

Madoc (is it HL Madoc?) is well known in Calontir and could potentially be the representative spokesperson of which you speak. But I know from discussions on another topic (rapier fighting) that the powers that be in Calontir are reluctant to change and that hostile words directed towards them merely put an end to any chance you have of achieving any change.

Madoc has also shown by his initial post that he is aware of the problems and willing to discuss them in order to achieve improvements in our guild. Also, please realize that my posts represent my observations and opinions and that I am a relative newbie to the SCA and to our kingdom. There may be a lot of things that go on within the leadership of Calontir to which I have no visibility. Hopefully others from Calontir will begin to post here and paint a broader picture that better describes the situation. So it is premature to jump to any conclusions yet...

Peace and patience,
Pewter the Peasant Brewer

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

While I'm not a member of the SCA, organizationally it sounds like the executive management team is "hording" authority over too many things to do an acceptable job in any of them.

The Calontir law has words to the effect that all recognitions are granted by the crown. The origination of these laws predates my involvement by several decades and so I cannot comment as to the motives of the originators, as to whether they were power grabbing or not. But the current royalty have not horded anything, but been cast into a position where they are forced to have a hand in every award that is handed out in Calontir. Some of our royalty, which change every 6 months, seem to have a great joy in giving out awards and recognition while others seem to be reluctant or disinterested in doing so. Some may enjoy the control and others may wish it wasn't their duty to perform the task.

I need to make something pretty clear. My personnae, Pewter of Deodar, is recognition averse because he is fleeing his past. In fact, the first time Pewter kneels before the king and queen for some reason is likely to leave a lot of people laughing and/or blushing as he will assume that his past has caught up with him and plead his innocence to the crown. So the real mundane me will not be actively seeking leather mallets, silver hammers, and laurels because to do so would violate the reasons Pewter is the way he is. But I realize that, and myself included, if you tell someone that they can graduate from being a student to being a novice by entering two contests, presenting 5 gallons of good brew to the guild, and attending 3 guild meetings, they will do exactly that in order to gain the rank. But if you add "and then you qualify to be submitted to the crown for possible award of your leather mallet" and remove becoming a "novice", the chance of the person actually putting forth the effort required drops significantly. However, even this would be better than the current situation where there are absolutely no recognized criteria by which you can know that you will gain that step.

I do not know how political the process is to get the GOA types of awards and so I will not accuse those in charge of making recommendations and urging the crown to make awards of unpure motives. It would be unfair and unnoble for me to do so. I will say that we, even commoners, are encouraged to submit recommendations which in turn get reviewed by the royalty. No one is forbidden to submit recommendations and beyond that I really have no clue as to how the actual decisions are made.

But it isn't the politics that bother me, it is the logistics of the situation. How can one couple that have become king and queen that are from one corner of the kingdom, that may never have brewed an item in their life, be made responsible to make a determination as to whether Joe Peasant from the other corner of the kingdom deserves to be recognized? Not only are they expected to handle Joe's guild, but every other group involved in every other manner of A&S (arts and sciences) throughout all four states. The answer would probably be that it is up to others to make recommendations but what are the chances that Joe, who just wants to take the step equivalent to moving from student to novice (earning leather mallet?), is even known by anyone from that side of the kingdom? And if I take what Madoc has posted and apply it, the chances are that Joe's chance of even having someone in the same Barony know him well enough to help him gain recognition is pretty small.

For now I am trying to stir the pot to get some discussion from those more familiar with the process. Please correct my misconceptions and post your thoughts. This is intended to be a discussion in order to improve our guild and kingdom. If the discussion fails or degenerates into an argument, we all lose...

Peace,
Pewter the Peasant Brewer

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

HL Rory McGowan, a past head of the Calontir Brewer's Guild posted the following to the listserver. He stated that it represented a small portion of the list of reasons that have led to the current situation. I number his comments for clarity. The list is not his entire post but just the list of reasons for the current situation...

1. The guild has been in decline since the economy took a dump 5 years ago. Hmmm, Brewers are the ONLY artisans that are EXPECTED to give what they make away, and in today's economy, most of us can't afford to do that forever.

2. The Guild members have started families and that takes up a lot of the
time that we used to have free.

3. Members have bought houses, and those houses require repair or their
basements have flooded with sewer.

4. Members have gotten "older" [SCA age also] in general and picked up
other interests as well.

5. Some members have gotten shiny hats and have to deal with 5-10 calls a
night that take away any time for anything else.

6. Several members have been providing HUGE quantities for so long that
they are getting burned out.

7. Some members are disillusioned at their accomplishments vs. lack of
recognition/advancement

8. Some members don't like the last 2 or 3 Guild Heads (Myself having been
one of those.)

9. Calontir has a buttload of GoA brewers that for various reasons haven't
advanced. The last Brewer Laureled was Jan 2001, and before that, April
1991! So we only make one every ten years or so...

10. Calontir has a buttload and a half of AoA brewers that for various
reasons haven't advanced. It comes in waves, We made 4 a couple of
years ago, and haven't made any in a while. That may change tomorrow, next
week, or next year.

11. Brewing was "all the rage" a couple of years ago, and now, only the
1%ers are left; until it becomes all the rage again.

12. "Another meeting, screw that, I have 3 meetings at that event already."

13. "BrewFest, I remember that event..."

14. "I'd rather not take my stuff to that event, so and so is going to be
there and raise a stink about this or that."

15. "I don't want to listen to Rory talk about yeast, sulfites, or labels again..."

16. Guild Head too busy mundanely to schedule meetings.

17. Lack of interesting competitions.

18. No group projects to work on. Lilies is too short to complete a brewing project.

19. "I'd rather watch reality TV."

I think every item in the list is valid for certain individuals in our kingdom. I look forward to discussions on how to change things so that people reprioritize brewing higher on their lists.

Peace,
Pewter

 

[Oskaar]

Hey Pewter,

Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Like I said earlier it looks like an executive management problem. Even if they inherited poor laws and rules from the previous regime, it's still their responsibility to fix it. But in order to do so they must be motivated into doing so.

Don't worry, I'm not inciting a riot, just pointing out that every situation is ripe with opportunity. You've reinforced that with your posts. You're a smart guy who's motivated and I believe you can enable some organizational reform in the Kingdom you describe very simply and with a minimum of effort. I'm not familiar with your organization so I can only offer up very general opinions on the opinions you've posted. Like I said, reading all of that stuff gives you a good laundry list of what not to do. Just do the things you can do, and that will be a positive addition to your Kingdom.

Cheers,

Oskaar

 

[briankettering]

Any gathering of brewers is going to be a learning experience. The chance to taste the fine, hand-crafted beverages made by others should be encouraged whenever possible. Rank or title should not make a difference.

I think a tasting at Lilies would be a wonderful thing, even if only two or three brewers show up.

There are plenty of opportunities for brewers gather and learn at inter-kingdom events like Pennsic and Estrella. I was amazed by the number of brewing classes taught at the last Estrella.

If you can make it out to Caid's Great Western War in October, there will be even more brewing classes, an InterKingdom Brewing Contest, and a little get-together that I host called the Taste of Caid.

Donal

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

Well.... activity on our listserver for Calontir brewing has popped. I had 90+ emails when I got back from vacation. About 2/3rd's of them were Calontir brewing related. The following observations from those posts...

1. Calontir brewing will not be moving to Gotmead. The current powers that be have mail programs that they are comfortable with that sort and prioritize things for them. They are content to remain where they are.

2. I was surprised to find out that the brewers require permission each year from the latest king and queen just to hold a brewing competition at Lilies. In other words, there are no such thing as "regular" or "annual" events as they all have to have their permissions renewed by the current crown or cease to exist. This seems rather stifling in terms of establishing traditions as well as a logistics nightmare for the current leadership if they truly must give permission for every activity (not just brewing related - I assume the same is true for every other guild, contest, event, or organization in Calontir) that occurs within the kingdom during their reign.

3. Those that have been around for a while are adverse to discussing the problems as they take any criticism as an attack against themselves or the kingdom. I have previously stated and will repeat that I do not hold anyone responsible for any of the problems. I just want to discuss the problems and fix them. It's like the left flank of our army of heavies keeps collapsing in battle and no one wants to discuss how to shore up the left flank. I just don't understand...

4. If the Calontir awards for brewing (No award, Leather Mallet, Silver Hammer, and Laurel) roughly correspond to the steps of recognition in a brewing guild of other kingdoms of Student, Novice, Journeyman, and Master), Calontir has created ONLY 4 or 5 Journeymen in the past 5 years and ONLY 2 Masters in the past 15 years! No organization is going to thrive with this little recognition of it's members.

5. The contributions of brewers throughout the SCA in terms of donations of their brews to parties, events, as donations to the warchest, or donations to the leadership for use as gifts is disproportionately high in respect to other organizations within the SCA. And the truth is that a lot of these donations are expected (and often taken for granted) by the non-brewing members of the SCA. And yet the recognition within Calontir, especially in light of the absence of guild-levels, does not reflect the disproportionate contributions. I know it's a tad oversimplified, but if the brewers are contributing $100,000 a year in goods to the kingdom and other organizations are closer to $10,000, shouldn't the brewers be receiving roughly 10 times as much recognition? I don't know numbers but right now it doesn't appear that they are even receiving ANY additional recognition. I need to do some more research to figure out actual numbers as the dollar amounts above are just for discussion purposes...

Yeh, there is a long uphill struggle ahead but everyone wins if we succeed in improving things. It just takes a while to demonstrate that to some people...

Peace,
Pewter

 

[Oskaar]

From an outsider's perspective, I'm glad I'm not in that organizations. You've got your work cut out for you dude!

Best of luck,

Oskaar

 

[Brewbear]

As an outsider, I do not think i would want to be involved in an organization as stifeling as the one you are describing. Life is too short to put up with A#$ H@#$% . It sounds like you're pushing a car uphill with a rope.
The best of luck with them,

Ted

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

Guys,

Every organization, work, charities, churches, whatever suffer from these sorts of things. It is a result of human nature in combination with the rules.

I had a long rant last night with the head of our Shire about my thoughts just to see if I was way off base or catching the situation correctly.

I think the biggest problem is the one of recognition. Why should I brew within the SCA and be taken for granted? Why should I be a part of an organization that contributes disproportionately to the kingdom and does not receive any additional recognition as a result?

We also talked about the politics of getting recognized. People providing services quietly year after year for many years and never receiving even a basic award.

We also talked about the fact that those granting the awards tend to live in the KC area (it's where the majority of the members are) and so people in NE Iowa that attend an event every week or two in Iowa receive no recognition where it counts. People from here are told they "need to travel more". I wonder how people from SW Kansas would feel that traveling to NE Iowa for events was necessary for their gaining awards? Kinda doubt they'd like it...

I believe there is a solution but it is contrary to the current structure and will take a champion that is willing to butt heads with the established hierarchy to make it happen. But a good first step in creating the sinergy needed to have a good guild is to allow the guild to establish it's own system of ranks and recognitions. I really like the ones I see for a couple of the other kingdoms where ranks are more like merit badges, do A, B, and C and you gain one step...

I also believe that the kingdom needs to take steps as a whole to create a system of identifiable milestones/requirements for receiving the various AOA, GOA, and such in order to eliminate the worst problems. If you tell a brewer he has to donate 5 gallons, attend 2 meetings, enter a contest, and stand one his head for two minutes to advance from Student to Novice, he will do it. But if you tell him that he has to do research, attend events, become known by people, and a whole list of other subjective things that only POSSIBLY qualify him, not give him the award, he will likely put the guild very low on his priority list and share his brew with his mundane friends instead. I still can't comprehend the fact that there have only been two laurels in brewing handed out in the past 15 years in Calontir...

Anyway, I am always willing to discuss, not argue, with anyone from Calontir that wants to talk about how we can improve things...

Peace,
Pewter

 

[Oskaar]

Hey Pewter,

Yup, every organization has it's challenges. Issues like the ones you're bringing to light are common in many organizations, but, they can be overcome. It's a shame the Calontir folks don't want to participate here because I think they would find value in the comments from people within the organization as well as outside the organization. We have a lot of people here in different businesses and volunteer organizations, as well as social clubs, government services, etc.

I personally am on the Board of Directors of three Not for Profit organizations and they all have their ups and downs. What you're describing is markedly more disfunctional than what I am experiencing currently, but I've been in similar situations. Luckily, the organizations I've been part of have been able to focus on our mission and goals as opposed to personalities and conflicts. Social/Fraternal organizations trend toward what you're describing with a lot of empire building, turf issues and event mismanagement.

The good news is that as much as people fight it, change happens. People can either manage it, or be managed by it. If they manage it in a semi-effective manner it will be easy on everyone, if they prefer to stick their heads in the ground and wait till it blows over, they'll be overwhelmed by it. Having a forum like this to get some issues on the table in a nuetral evironment is a good thing. People tend to get curious as to what is being said about their organizations and investigate on their own.

Another thing to consider is pouring over the charter and by-laws for your organization. I don't know if it is incorporated or not, but if it is, it will have to have the articles of incorporation and by-laws at minimum. Any dues paying member is entitled to a copy of those. I've found some very interesting things in by-laws, MOU's and such that have helped to facilitate change when it didn't seem like there was any way to make a change. Hopefully the people of Calontir are in a position to do so as well, in a constructive and positive manner.

There is nothing so powerful as an idea who's time has come.

Cheers,

Oskaar

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

The laws for the Kingdom of Calontir are posted here...

http://calontir.sca.org/senesh/laws/laws.html

 

[Oskaar]

Pewter Check out FP-204 (Financial Policy) in the liink that you posted.

Calontir have a federal tax ID which makes it likely that they're incorporated, and possibly a 501c3 Not for profit organization. Under Federal, State and Local laws most of these organizations must have Articles of Incorporation and By-Laws duly signed by officers of the organization and available upon request. You may be able to find something in those documents that would be useful.

Cheers,

Oskaar

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

Oskaar,

I was browsing the policy during lunch and also noticed a section earlier on Guilds. It talks about a guild charter, which I am in the process of trying to find.

I can see from the overhead required by Calontir's policies why the leadership opted to make the organization no more than a listserve. I wonder if the guildhead even provides the yearly reports to the crown. I don't believe he has to if there is no authorized charter or financial activity.

Pewter