too high an OG on my cyser?

[HighTest]

Ok, I'll use 5 gallons. Now here's the bad news. Because of that high SG must (1.075) a little goes a long way.

Here's where you stand. If you mix 1 gal of your 1.075 cyser with 5 gallons of a cyser at 0.996, you end-up with 6 gal of a 1.009 cyser. That means it will take a few dry cyser batches to use-up that 5 gal batch...

 

[memento]

Except that I want 1.04 to 1.03, not 1.009. How does that calculate out? I would think that if you took 5 gallons at, say 1.000 (for easy math), and mix that 50/50 with 5 gallons at 1.075, then you get 2 batches at the midpoint, 1.0375, which would be perfect.

 

[HighTest]

Yes, a 50/50 mix would get you to 1.0375 (10 gal). I was just rying to see how low I could go with even gallon mixes.

 

[memento]

cool. Now what would a correct recipe be to make a 5 gallon cyser that ferments to dryness? I don't want to start another one, only to have it die too soon.

 

[Oskaar]

Well,

Here's the way I blend. SG is all well and good, but blend it to taste rather than to SG. Blend it, taste it, blend it, taste it and then when it's where you want it take an SG reading and you'll know what level you like.

Do it on a small scale first. I generally do 500 ml and add from another 500 ml container until I get what I want. Then I can calculate what amounts of each I need to yield my optimal mix.

Numbers are fine, but to me they do not dictate blending, rather they confirm what I have blended and help me with a target brix/gravity in further blending.

Hope that helps,

Oskaar

 

[HighTest]

...SG is all well and good, but blend it to taste rather than to SG. Blend it, taste it, blend it, taste it and then when it's where you want it take an SG reading and you'll know what level you like.

I would agree. But Memento seemed to feel that his "magic number' was 1.0375. Once he gets the new cyser finished dry he can confirm his belief...

 

[HighTest]

..what would a correct recipe be to make a 5 gallon cyser that ferments to dryness?

Use 8 lbs of honey and 4½ gal of sweet cider, staggered nutrients & DAP, & 2 packets rehydrated K1V yeast. I would suggest you read & folow the appropriate FAQs from the link I noted above. Your OG should be near 1.098

 

[memento]

That does help. I tend to do things by feel, but if I'm going to blend, then I need to make something suitable for blending. Normally I shoot for 1.02 to 1.01 for my meads. As it turns out, I think I like my cyser sweeter because I want some cider taste still there. 1.0375 was and is still a guesstimate of where I think I want it. Right now I'm a bit weary of cyser. As good as it tastes, I've not had these problems with anything else. So I like the idea of blending with a very low SG cyser, so long as I can actually ferment one!

Thanks for all the help so far. I'm sure this will succeed in the end.

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

I think you will be happy with your cyser at around 1.0375. Mine finished at 1.040 and is right about where it tastes pretty good. Nice blend of sweetness, spices, tartness, acidity, and apple flavor...

Good luck!

 

[memento]

For now, I've started a starter with K1V. I've been acclimating the yeast over the past 2 days and tonight I'll be doing my final acclimation. Tomorrow night I should be ready to put it into the cyser and see what happens. I still have time before I bottle and free up a carboy (if I decide I need to blend).

 

[memento]

I repitched the acclimated yeast and it's been fermenting since 11/2 (wed). Still going. Not quickly, but strong and consistent. I'll take an SG reading this wed 11/9 and hopefully will see a nice change for the better.

 

[memento]

The SG, as of last night, was 1.071. As long as it keeps moving, I'm a patient man.

 

[memento]

well, tonight the SG is 1.070

I got a pH meter and it says 3.25.

help! It's dead again. I thought about making a dry cyser and mixing, but that will dilute it and I want it to reach 16-18% or so.

I have D47, K1V, DV10, EC-1118 and cotes des blancs immediately available. I really want this to ferment further, so help here is appreciated.

Can I make another cyser and feed it to push it over 20% to use for mixing it? Would it be easier to try and get this one going again for another 0.03 SG?

 

[Pewter_of_Deodar]

I'll raise a flag and someone with some reference books handy or a better memory than mine can comment but I believe that 3.2 or so was the low end of pH that could be tolerated by yeast. Your trouble may be pH management. Anyone else have a comment?

 

[memento]

I couldn't find any yeast reference info that also had pH tolerances listed. I did find some info on "pro restart" yeast. It can handle pH as low as 3. I figure that since this is supposed to be a cure-all for stuck fermentations, and it has a min pH of 3, that my pH must be killing my yeast.

"ProRestart is the easiest strategy but for it to be successful make sure that your wine falls in these parameters:
Alcohol - up to 15.5% (final)
pH - as low as pH 3
Free SO2 - maximum 15 mg/L
Residual sugars - will work well even below 10 g/L of sugar
Volatile acidity - below 0.61 g/L as acetic acid (0.5 g/L as sulfuric acid)"

How do I increase the pH? Or what yeast will tolerate 3.25?

 

[Oskaar]

Raise that pH by adding some Potassium or Calcium Carbonate. They both have their pros and cons, biggest con for calcium carbonate is that it will adversely affect the flavor of your mead/wine. Just make sure it stays in the 3.25 and above range and most wine yeasts will be fine. I've seen K1V chug through a pH crash as low as 2.8, but then K1V is a beast!

Cheers,

Oskaar

 

[memento]

K1V is what's stuck. I used it because it has that reputation.

So then, how do I calculate the amount of potassium carbonate?

 

[Oskaar]

Ya know,

I'm not convinced that this is pH related, especially with K1V. Do you have access to another hydrometer for your gravity reading? Once I'm down into the 1.070 and below range I switch to a narrow scale hydrometer. I find some pretty big differences between my normal triple scale hydrometers, and the narrow scale finishing hydrometer.

I've had several batches of mead and cyser that have gone down to 3.2 and 3.0 with K1V and not had a stall. So I'm still not certain that's the case, but, here's a link to B3's website with a product description of K-Carbonate:

http://www.morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=15555

I'd check that gravity reading again with a more narrow band hydrometer, and then if it's still in that range it's more than likely the pH. Also did you follow a nutrient dosing schedule? I noticed you only added energizer which is generally only half of the nutrient/energizer equation as far as nutrient balance.

Lemme know,

Oskaar

 

[memento]

I have a split range set of 2 calibrated "narrow band" hydrometers that cover the full range. I bought these because I absolutely couldn't trust my generic $6 one. They split at 1.070, so I've been using all 3 to measure SG. I figure the split point is the weakest measurement. Then the cheapo is used to semi-validate the measurement. I'm confident in the measurement. Plus it tastes too sweet.

I did not follow a nutrient dosing schedule. I was confused enough with this batch, having underestimated the OG in the first place. I do have fermaid or fermax. Should I add that? And how much? I'll have to check and see exactly which it is when I get home. My energizer was DAP and hulls.

I see from b3 that they explain how much to add. I'm good there (if that is the real problem).

 

[Oskaar]

Well,

I'd go ahead then and get the K carbonate and move forward. Figure out what the right dosage is and follow the instructions for use to see if it makes a difference. Either that or just let this one sit where it is, and then make a dry batch as described below and blend them.

Cheers,

Oskaar