US bill HR 1161

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so someone explain this in lamen's terms.

I -think- what this is trying to do, is stop online ordering of wines from small wineries forcing wineries to use interstate distributors.

Then again this is broadly worded enough that I'm really not sure that's correct. Hence, my questions for those who might be (more) in the know.
 
I'm not a lawyer, but from what I can see this a a very short bill.
A BILL



To reaffirm state-based alcohol regulation, and for other purposes.
  • Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,
SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.


  • This Act may be cited as the `Community Alcohol Regulatory Effectiveness Act of 2011'.
SEC. 2. PURPOSES.


  • The purpose of this Act is to recognize and reaffirm that alcohol is different from other consumer products and that it should continue to be regulated by the States.
SEC. 3. SUPPORT FOR STATE ALCOHOL REGULATION.


  • The Act entitled `An Act divesting intoxicating liquors of their interstate character in certain cases', approved March 2, 1913 (27 U.S.C. 122 et seq.), commonly known as the `Webb-Kenyon Act', is amended by adding at the end the following:
`SEC. 3. SUPPORT FOR STATE ALCOHOL REGULATION.


  • `(a) Declaration of Policy- It is the policy of Congress to recognize and reaffirm that alcohol is different from other consumer products and that it should continue to be regulated by the States.
  • `(b) Construction of Congressional Silence- Silence on the part of Congress shall not be construed to impose any barrier under clause 3 of section 8 of article I of the Constitution (commonly referred to as the `Commerce Clause') to the regulation by a State or territory of alcoholic beverages. However, State or territorial regulations may not intentionally or facially discriminate against out-of-State or out-of-territory producers of alcoholic beverages in favor of in-State or in-territory producers unless the State or territory can demonstrate that the challenged law advances a legitimate local purpose that cannot be adequately served by reasonable nondiscriminatory alternatives.'.
SEC. 4. AMENDMENT TO WILSON ACT.


  • The Act entitled `An Act to limit the effect of the regulations of commerce between the several States and with foreign countries in certain cases', approved August 8, 1890 (27 U.S.C. 121), commonly known as the `Wilson Act', is amended by striking `to the same extent' and all that follows through `Territory,'.

The Wilson Act, that it is purposed to amend is also very short.
All fermented, distilled, or other intoxicating liquors or liquids transported into any State or Territory or remaining therein for use, consumption, sale, or storage therein, shall upon arrival in such State or Territory be subject to the operation and effect of the laws of such State or Territory enacted in the exercise of its police powers, to the same extent and in the same manner as though such liquids or liquors had been produced in such State or Territory, and shall not be exempt therefrom by reason of being introduced therein in original packages or otherwise.

The modified version would then read:
All fermented, distilled, or other intoxicating liquors or liquids transported into any State or Territory or remaining therein for use, consumption, sale, or storage therein, shall upon arrival in such State or Territory be subject to the operation and effect of the laws of such State or Territory enacted in the exercise of its police powers, and shall not be exempt therefrom by reason of being introduced therein in original packages or otherwise.

That seems like such a small change. However, it gives states the right to enact legislation to regulate alcoholic beverages coming from another state differently than they regulate alcohol produced in the state. While I am a huge proponent of state's rights, I cannot see where treating alcohol produced in a state differently from alcohol produced in another state provides any benefit to the public or protection to "the little children." This has nothing to do with regulation of whether or not liquor stores open next to schools or how advertising is done.

What this does, is create an opportunity for Liquor wholesalers to take the fight to the states. They can then go to the state legislators and ask that out-of-state beers, wines, liquors be prohibited from direct shipping, or asked to pay special fees, or to do whatever other devious plan they can think of. In these cases, the political donations will be big, and since such rules won't be hurting the in-state producers, none of the in-state industry folks will be in opposition to legislation since it isn't their ox that's getting gored. Without organized, well-funded opposition, there will be little to stop such rules, and the preferences of the consumer be damned. This is why it is the beer and wine wholesalers who are promoting this.

As it stands now, direct shipment of wine is a tiny portion of the business, but just like Blockbuster learned from NetFlix, that tiny portion can grow fast. These folks would like to see it stopped before it begins to grow. With the Internet and great websites like Snooth and others, it is really easy not to depend on the recommendations from a local retailer, not to be limited to only what is carried by the distributor and sold to local retailers. If you see something you want to try, and can order it directly from the producer, you may find that becomes your preferred way of purchasing and then what?

Dr. Peter Venkman: ...a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath of God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling!
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave!
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

Actually, I don't think direct sales will grow to be a large chunk of the market. Most people buy their stuff by dropping in to the local retailer and picking up something that they like or that catches their eye. Most folks are not going to be ordering meads or wines on the internet. However, for a small winery or meadery, that cannot easily get distributors to pick up their product due to small demand or low margins, the direct sales may be the difference between viability and out-of-business. Having direct sales is not going to put the wholesalers out of business, but clearly, they don't want to risk losing any market-share.

That's my two cents worth.
 
Thanks Medsen, that was the kind of analysis I was hoping for since I'm admittedly rather ignorant of how federal alcohol laws work.

Hopefully there can be enough of a push from people to stop this but it seems unlikely right now.
 
Any suggestions for what we, the People, the ordinary meadimbibers, might do to facilitate our ability to continue to just place an order with the meadery of our choice unmolested by g'mnt?
 
It could possibly give states the ability to regulate home brewing basically killing the hobby in some states.

States already have the ability to regulate home brewing. I think Alabama still prohibits it as an example. The federal law that allows home brewing says that it does not override state law, so if a state wants to restrict home alcohol production they can and this bill will not change that.
 
Which would not be permitted under federal law. :(

Exactly, which is why he is only here for theory crafting

Any brewlogs posted are only a part of theoretical mathematical simulations or reports of brewing that are being done in another state by research technicians and never imported over state lines.

...yeah we'll go with that.

Actually it probably falls under the same laws that allow people to order prescription medicines off the internet and from overseas. It's still completely illegal to do so. Since 2005, however, the Federal Gov't has refused to follow through or prosecute purchases of Schedule III/IV drugs transported in quantities reasonable for individual use. This creates a defacto legalization since the laws simply aren't enforced.

Home Brewing in 'Bama is most likely in the same category, where it's not worth gov't time and money to prosecute someone with 20 gallons of mead in their closet. Because they don't enforce it for the majority, they can't enforce for anyone as it would be unequal application of the law and most likely get thrown out of court. This last part is speculation though and yuo would need statistics on how many prosecutions for home brewing are done in that state in the past decade as well as a trending chart to show if prosecutions are increasing or decreasing (Positive negative delta)
 
it's like porno. technically it's illegal, but we have 6 brew shops within 2 hours driving time, including 1 right down the street.

oddly enough, we have 2 porn shops in town to. but all the products they sell are for "scientific purposes". or so the waivers i've heard about say.
 
This is a classic example of how we don't need another freaking law. What this act purports to do is /already/ covered by the Constitution via the 21st amendment.

"The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or Possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited."


So if Alabama doesn't want booze imported into the State, write a law that says that. Then shoot anyone who imports booze into the State.

*gets up on a soap box*

The answer to everything is not writing another damned law. Just enforce the ones you have. "Existing laws are being challenged in court" So what?! Why won't this law be challenged in court?

If anything, I would think it violates both the 14th amendment

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. (especially in regards to recent SCOTUS decisions that hold that because corporations are owned/operated by citizens they have similar rights and privileges)

and Article 3, Section 9

No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another; nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
 
*gets up on a soap box*


All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws. (especially in regards to recent SCOTUS decisions that hold that because corporations are owned/operated by citizens they have similar rights and privileges)

Wait a minute, are you saying that you agree with the SCOTUS absurd decision to define "corporations" as "citizens?!"
 
it's like porno. technically it's illegal....

Porno is just legalized prostitution. Video tape it and your all legal.

I'm wondering if this could produce a trickle down effect? Would it then become that you can not bring alcohol over state lines as an individual? Cause I mean that would be removing revenue and taxation that the state could be receiving if the person was to buy the alcohol in the state they are entering and planning to drink in? Will we see check points on the side of the road with officers checking to see if we're smuggling alcohol to our friends house? If not, what's to stop a bunch of small brew houses from rending an address together to ship out their goods from within several states? They make it in one state, drive it to another, then mail it out from that address.
 
Any suggestions for what we, the People, the ordinary meadimbibers, might do to facilitate our ability to continue to just place an order with the meadery of our choice unmolested by g'mnt?

Call your representative and senators, and ask them to oppose this bill when/if it comes up to a vote. ;)

EDIT: Sorry for resurrecting a dead thread, and saying something that had already been said. >.<
 
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Wait a minute, are you saying that you agree with the SCOTUS absurd decision to define "corporations" as "citizens?!"

And the thread comes off the tracks!

I was not saying that, simply noting that is the decision SCOTUS made. However, as a general principle, I do. Corporations are owned by people, and those people have rights (which as I understand is basically what SCOTUS said). The idea that I should lose my rights because I formed a corporation is rather absurd. Granted, it would just be one more absurdity in the way in which the modern US is run, but I suppose I'm inclined to go with small wins when I can.

The case in question was in regards to political campaigning. If George Soros can spend millions of dollars manipulating the political course of the country, I don't really see any reason why Nabisco can't do it.