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Want to start a small-meadery

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Nidhoggr

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Oct 1, 2012
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I'll make this as non long story as I can:

I have been a lover of mead for years. I have been helping make and making mead for about a year. I am absolutely in love with it. I have given out samples to a lot of friends and friends of friends and all of them agree it is fantastic and they wanted to buy it. I told them I am unable to sell to them legally. I have had dozens and dozens of people push for me to get the licensing to be able to sell it. I have decided: I love doing this enough that I want to do it.

I am a piercer in my main profession and that allots me a good deal of free time. I am also a renny (I go to renfaires a LOT). Through my connections to one of the local renfaires they have informed me if I get the license to sell mead commercially, they will all but exclusively carry my mead. That would be a guaranteed 100-300 bottles of sales just in the summer.

My wife as well has been pushing me to do this because it is something I am good at and has seen how many sales I have been unable to make due to legal concerns (somewhere in the ballpark of 500 bottles since November).

I already read up on how to go about getting the Federal Permit through the ttb (A thousand dollar bond, permit fees, taxes on a per-bottle basis, get inspection done, etc.). I cannot for the life of me find where the hell my states application is on the internet, nor even a HINT of a lead to find who to ask. Hence why I turned to here for that. I live in Kentucky and would love any assistance, advice, criticism, what-have-you anyone could offer up in this especially the who to contact department.

I did discover from what I can find, though, my state allows commercial business to be done out of a home as long as there is no direct-harm or disruption being caused by the business. The TTB's stance on this for alcohol production is "Whatever's clever, you paid your taxes".

Also: I am not attempting to make a big-business out of this. Just me, my mead, and local businesses I have easy-in's at and my local renfaire.

Any help at all would be incredibly appreciated.
 
Even the root site link won't load for me. I'll try that search and post back.
 
It's working now. Was just being finicky. NO idea what it was. Probably my ISP. Anyway: It seems the startup cost for all the permits (state and federal), plus a small-run batch (60 gallons) isn't too terrible. Assuming I am correct it's the BREWER permit I am seeking, it'll be roughly 4 grand for all the permits and a 1.5k bottle run.
 
From what I can see on the site, you'll want to apply for the Schedule M permit. Not sure if that is different from what you were thinking, but that is what it looks like.

Remember, mead is viewed by the Feds and most other agencies as "honey wine", so you'll be looking for a winemaker's license, not a brewer's license.
 
Nidhoggr said:
I did discover from what I can find, though, my state allows commercial business to be done out of a home as long as there is no direct-harm or disruption being caused by the business. The TTB's stance on this for alcohol production is "Whatever's clever, you paid your taxes".
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Will your state ABC board allow you to manufacture wine in your home? Some states allow it, others dont. Also, be aware that you may have to have a license to be a food manufacturer, and the city may require health dept standards...
 
Mars Colonist said:
Will your state ABC board allow you to manufacture wine in your home? Some states allow it, others dont. Also, be aware that you may have to have a license to be a food manufacturer, and the city may require health dept standards...
Click to expand...

You'll probably also need a commercial well and plans to get rid of waste in an environmentally conscious way. It will have to be a winemaker's license not a brewer's license because mead is not technically brewed it is made or fermented. This also means you may not have any grain on premise and may not make braggots etc where the mead is made. You'll also have to go through label approval on every mead made and recipe approval on every mead made.

Have you made a quantity of mead over 5-10 gallons at a time? It is an entirely different animal when you start making extremely large quantities in terms of temperature & temperature management, amounts of ingredients needed, time, etc.
 
Guinlilly said:
You'll probably also need a commercial well and plans to get rid of waste in an environmentally conscious way. It will have to be a winemaker's license not a brewer's license because mead is not technically brewed it is made or fermented. This also means you may not have any grain on premise and may not make braggots etc where the mead is made. You'll also have to go through label approval on every mead made and recipe approval on every mead made.

Have you made a quantity of mead over 5-10 gallons at a time? It is an entirely different animal when you start making extremely large quantities in terms of temperature & temperature management, amounts of ingredients needed, time, etc.
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My state actually encourages the Small Farm Winery permits to be used which are designed (at least here) to allow out-of-home manufacture possible.

I have looked deeper and deeper into all of this and it's very, very, very doable especially in my city/state. One of the people I will possibly be working alongside with has access to a fair bit of things I don't (mass storage areas, warehouses, delivery trucks, etc). He is also getting his wine distribution/wholesale permits (in talks) and is already a beer distributor.

The talk has actually been done, too, that we could use the facility he'd use as the bonded premises for distribution as a co-leased complex and make a section of it into a working area for me, and transfer my production license to that establishment. Once again: That's all in talks.

As far as mass-quantity production: With a SFW permit I am allowed to produce up to 50 thousand gallons a year and am not even going to attempt that starting out. I'd be going for more in the ball park of 1000 gallons in a year pending on sales.

I'm not jumping into this blindfolded, I can assure you that. I am going to do it but I am taking my time in making it all work efficiently and legally. I don't want to dive in to quickly and fail due to setbacks. Slow and steady wins the race, as they say.

I very much appreciate all the insight that's been given and the questions that have been raised.:)
 
You should consider rereading the last paragraph of Guinlilly's post. She brings up some good points regarding larger ferments. If your goal is 1,000 gallons/year to start, then you will probably want to do 50 gallon batches (or more!). That calcs out to twenty 50 gallon batches, or roughly one 50 gallon batch every 2.5 weeks.

On the finical side of things, this particular thread was eye opening for me. Ian provides real numbers and you might be able to build a business plan off of his data.
 
Midnight Sun said:
You should consider rereading the last paragraph of Guinlilly's post. She brings up some good points regarding larger ferments. If your goal is 1,000 gallons/year to start, then you will probably want to do 50 gallon batches (or more!). That calcs out to twenty 50 gallon batches, or roughly one 50 gallon batch every 2.5 weeks.

On the finical side of things, this particular thread was eye opening for me. Ian provides real numbers and you might be able to build a business plan off of his data.
Click to expand...

Definitely will. I am curious: Someone said when you go much bigger you have to adjust accordingly and differently. In what regard?
 
Nidhoggr said:
Definitely will. I am curious: Someone said when you go much bigger you have to adjust accordingly and differently. In what regard?
Click to expand...

Hmmm... the first thing that comes to mind is fermentation vessel. You probably won't find glass fermented larger than 10 gallon. You are probably going to need to go stainless steel, HDPE, or other type of plastic.

As Guinlilly mentioned, temp and temp management become troublesome. As the yeast metabolize sugars into alcohol, they will give off heat. Small batches tend to dissipate heat adequately. Larger batches have a lower surface area to volume ratio, so heat dissipation becomes a problem. Add in the fact that a large volume of liquid will be slow to respond to temperature mitigation techniques, you could easily end up in a situation where the fermentation temp exceeds the yeast's ideal range.

How about storage? Racking? How will you move a full fermenter/storage container? Distilled water weighs ~8.34 pounds/US gallon, so 50 gallons of mead will be more than 417 pounds.
 
Another thing to note on, more on the business side. You will need to calculate for rent or buying a place. Buying bottles, corks, labels, shipping. Don't forget Uncle Sam wants his cut too. Your also probably want to get an LLC so if someone thinks your mead killed their brother they can't take your house or other non business assets to cover those costs.

Best of luck though for sure, you'll be living the dream soon!
 
Midnight Sun said:
Hmmm... the first thing that comes to mind is fermentation vessel. You probably won't find glass fermented larger than 10 gallon. You are probably going to need to go stainless steel, HDPE, or other type of plastic.

As Guinlilly mentioned, temp and temp management become troublesome. As the yeast metabolize sugars into alcohol, they will give off heat. Small batches tend to dissipate heat adequately. Larger batches have a lower surface area to volume ratio, so heat dissipation becomes a problem. Add in the fact that a large volume of liquid will be slow to respond to temperature mitigation techniques, you could easily end up in a situation where the fermentation temp exceeds the yeast's ideal range.

How about storage? Racking? How will you move a full fermenter/storage container? Distilled water weighs ~8.34 pounds/US gallon, so 50 gallons of mead will be more than 417 pounds.
Click to expand...

As far as the tanks and all that goodness: Already in the market for them. There are quite a few I am looking at. Stainless steel connical for primary/secondary/tertiary, plastic maturation tank. Most of the conical systems I am looking into have an on-board system you can use for bottling/racking that you can attach a tube to. Storage: Not really an issue. Depending on location and what state the fermenter is in (full or empty): a forklift if I am in a large rented building/potential warehouse meadery.

I have also, in regards to fermentation temperature control, have been looking in to cooling coils (non copper), heating wraps, and various other techniques; such as the appropriately named "ice cube shuffle".
 
Excellent, looks like you are well on your way. Unfortunately, you are also to the point where my knowledge ends. I wish you the best in your endeavors!

BTW, what part of Kentucky are you in? My dad's family is mostly in the Harlan County area. Supposedly there will be a family reunion this 4th of July, but not quite sure the exact location. I have not been to Kentucky since I was a kid, so it looks like this may be my year!
 
Midnight Sun said:
Excellent, looks like you are well on your way. Unfortunately, you are also to the point where my knowledge ends. I wish you the best in your endeavors!

BTW, what part of Kentucky are you in? My dad's family is mostly in the Harlan County area. Supposedly there will be a family reunion this 4th of July, but not quite sure the exact location. I have not been to Kentucky since I was a kid, so it looks like this may be my year!
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Thank you for your assistance! I very much appreciate all the questions raised for me, and the ways to potentially solve them as well ;D.

I am from the Louisville-Metro area. Harlan is.... an hour from me if I recall correctyl?
 
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