Where did I go wrong?

  • PATRONS: Did you know we've a chat function for you now? Look to the bottom of the screen, you can chat, set up rooms, talk to each other individually or in groups! Click 'Chat' at the right side of the chat window to open the chat up.
  • Love Gotmead and want to see it grow? Then consider supporting the site and becoming a Patron! If you're logged in, click on your username to the right of the menu to see how as little as $30/year can get you access to the patron areas and the patron Facebook group and to support Gotmead!
  • We now have a Patron-exclusive Facebook group! Patrons my join at The Gotmead Patron Group. You MUST answer the questions, providing your Patron membership, when you request to join so I can verify your Patron membership. If the questions aren't answered, the request will be turned down.

kenyashiuang

NewBee
Registered Member
Jan 5, 2018
20
0
0
So I started my first batch 9 days ago based on Steve Piatz's book whose recipe and instructions I've tried to follow.

Over the course of the 8 days that I've been stirring the must, I've noticed that the gravity reading is rapidly getting closer and closer to the Target Gravity of 1.010. Somewhere around the 4th or 5th day, I couldn't resist and took a little taste test from my wine thief. Taste reminded me of ice wine and I thought things were going well. On the 8th day, the gravity reading I took put it at 1.000 and it tasted so dry with no sweetness at all. It was like a complete opposite of the first time I tasted it just a few days prior. So I am clearly doing something wrong as the book instructs to leave the must in primary fermentation until the 21st day.

Trying to look back and think of the mistakes I've done, it may have been the following:

1. I did not add enough water. Since I was going for a SG of 1.115, I was slowly adding water until I hit that mark but I didn't realize how little it was for a little less of a 5 gallon batch. I only added 10.5L of water to 12 pounds of Orange Blossom honey. This may have also lead me to using too much yeast and nutrients (maybe?) since I put in 1 whole packet of 71B for what should have been a 5 gallon batch.

2. I am using my hydrometer wrong. I followed every advice I've read though. Gently lower it, twist it, read from the lower miniscus. However, I did not know until recently that hydrometers are calibrated to a certain temperature. But upon using a calculator, for a hydrometer reading at 28C, I see that my readings have only been 0.002 off.

Steve Piatz called for a mixture of about 4g Fermaid K and 8g of DAP which would make the mixture weigh 12g in total (if my logic is correct) -- I believe Steve Piatz personally measured in tsp but included the approximate weights in his book as well. Since I bought a blade scale and thought weight would be a more accurate measure, I decided to base the amounts on the approximate weights he indicated. However, he only says to add 2g of the mixture everytime. There are 4 occasions where the Fermaid K and DAP mixture is needed according to him, before pitching the yeast and every 2 days after the yeast has been pitched. By my math that makes 8g out of the 12g. So after using the first 6g, I decided to just toss the remaining 6g during the last time I was supposed to add nutrients which might have been a bad move.

I would also like to point out that 12 hours after pitching the yeast is when I first stirred the must. Prior to stirring, you could see a slightly thick blanket of bubbles over the must. I have not seen those bubbles again after my first stirring session.

Here are my gravity readings over the course of the last 8 days after pitching the yeast (on some days I took two gravity readings since I would stir twice a day but due to the busy week with family activities, I could only take one gravity reading on most days):
Day 1: 1.108
Day 2: 1.098 followed by 1.086
Day 3: 1.076 followed by 1.068
Day 4: 1.060
Day 5: Did not take
Day 6: 1.024
Day 7: 1.012
Day 8: 1.000

I would like to note that I do not have a temperature controlled environment. For Day 1 to Day 3, room temperature was at 26C - 28C. Day 4 to Day 6 was at 20C - 29C (I had to move to a different room because my I had relatives staying over in our guest room). Day 7 to Day 8 was back to 26C - 28C.


I may have done a lot of things wrong but I'd like to know what I did wrong, and how do I proceed from there. Can I add water to the must? Can I back sweeten it? Or do I just abandon it? Could it be somehow infected? All help and advice is greatly appreciated.
 
Well, it already sounds like you know of some things you might have done better, but you really didn't do anything wrong.

The only thing you might have done wrong was expect that your yeast would stop exactly at 1.010. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Have you read Squatchys latest thread?

http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php/27263-Please-read-this!!!

You didn't use too much yeast. Depending on how high of a starting gravity you should be using 2g to 4g per gallon.

You need to do some more studying about YAN and SNA. Check out: https://youtu.be/W-QaG-kZCCo

Once you've got an understanding about YAN and SNA, start reading about FermaidO. Checkout TOSNA on the mead made right website: http://www.meadmaderight.com

Where do you do from here? Check out the gotmead podcasts, starting at 9/05/2017. There's 4 weeks on modern mead making. You need to take some notes and learn how to stabilize and backsweeten your mead.

Good Luck.
 
I've noticed that the gravity reading is rapidly getting closer and closer to the Target Gravity of 1.010. Somewhere around the 4th or 5th day, I couldn't resist and took a little taste test from my wine thief. Taste reminded me of ice wine and I thought things were going well. On the 8th day, the gravity reading I took put it at 1.000 and it tasted so dry with no sweetness at all. It was like a complete opposite of the first time I tasted it just a few days prior. So I am clearly doing something wrong as the book instructs to leave the must in primary fermentation until the 21st day.

I'm not sure if I understand exactly what the issue is. It sounds like the book says to leave the must in primary for 21 days and that you should arrive at 1.010 at that time, is that what you expect? From what I've read, it doesn't work that way. Perhaps the book is saying to let it ferment to completion (which may take up to 21 days) and then back sweeten it to 1.010?

As for infection, it's a possibility if you are not sanitizing your hydrometer and wine thief each time. If you pull a sample and then intend to put it back in the must, everything must be sanitized. If you are planning on drinking the sample or tossing it after you measure, then only the wine thief needs to be sanitized (as long as you are careful not to let it touch anything else).
 
Well, it already sounds like you know of some things you might have done better, but you really didn't do anything wrong.

The only thing you might have done wrong was expect that your yeast would stop exactly at 1.010. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. Have you read Squatchys latest thread?

http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php/27263-Please-read-this!!!

You didn't use too much yeast. Depending on how high of a starting gravity you should be using 2g to 4g per gallon.

You need to do some more studying about YAN and SNA. Check out: https://youtu.be/W-QaG-kZCCo

Once you've got an understanding about YAN and SNA, start reading about FermaidO. Checkout TOSNA on the mead made right website: http://www.meadmaderight.com

Where do you do from here? Check out the gotmead podcasts, starting at 9/05/2017. There's 4 weeks on modern mead making. You need to take some notes and learn how to stabilize and backsweeten your mead.

Good Luck.

Yes, I've read Squachy's post. That's where I got the idea of back sweetening. But all that is done after the fermentation. I would like to know my next moves. Do I still leave it in the plastic fermenter? Is there anything else I need to add? Was I wrong to add so much Fermaid K and DAP in the end?

I read somewhere (can't exactly remember where) that Fermaid O doesn't really make a world of difference. While I read that it's better, I figured I should stick to what the book called for. As I've mentioned in a separate post, all my ingredients and most of my equipment is imported, so I don't have the luxury of just going to the LHBS.

I admit though that I don't have a complete understanding about YAN and SNA. I figured I'd learn those as I moved along. I learn things better that way when I see how the pieces go together and make sense. So the actual experience of making the mead, whether a success or failure, is important to me.

And I do listen to the podcasts but only when work requires me to drive to places. It can get lonely being stuck in traffic lol and the podcasts help. It's my first time listening to podcasts and I've come to learn it can be rather entertaining haha.

I'm not sure if I understand exactly what the issue is. It sounds like the book says to leave the must in primary for 21 days and that you should arrive at 1.010 at that time, is that what you expect? From what I've read, it doesn't work that way. Perhaps the book is saying to let it ferment to completion (which may take up to 21 days) and then back sweeten it to 1.010?

Not exactly at 1.010 because after 21 days I'm supposed to rack to secondary according to the book. I just didn't expect the gravity to move up so quickly. At the rate it's going would it be safe to say that fermentation will be complete in a few more days? And no, the book makes no mention of back sweetening the mead.
 
My intial reply did not get posted for some reason.

@darigoni

Yes I've read Squatchy's latest thread. That is where I got the idea for backsweetening. However, I don't believe it helps me much with deciding my immediate next move. Do I just leave my must to keep fermenting?

I didn't think I would need to study too much on YAN and SNA yet since I wasn't developing a recipe. Simply just trying to follow one. I also figured some experience would be more important first before I got in to all the science. And I do listen to the podcasts, but only when my work requires me to drive around. I find it helps alleviate the loneliness from being stuck in traffic lol.

@Devin Petry-Johnson
No, I did not expect it to be 1.010 at the end of 21 days. At the 21st day, the book says to rack to secondary. So I expected it to reach the target gravity during secondary. What I did not expect was gravity to change so fast in just a few days because the way I see it, at this rate my must will be done fermenting in just a few more days.
 
What darigoni said. Although there are some approximations (i.e. such and such yeast stops around 14% ABV) yeast are going to stop where THEY want, not where we want. There are some ways around this such as fermenting dry and then backsweetening, or cold crashing. Both methods will need a way to keep the yeast from waking back up, such as adding sulfite and sorbate. Adding these chemicals properly and backsweetening is what I would recommend so it tastes better to you, but you could leave it dry as it will likely to continue to improve and you may still like it once it ages a little. Generally, after it's done fermenting it will still need a couple months or more to really shine. My point is, take your time and DON'T GIVE UP ON IT YET, there is nothing wrong with it.

A couple other comments to your post:
1. I did not add enough water. ... adding more water (diluting the sugar) will actually make it drier. You could consider instead using less water or more honey next time.
2. I am using my hydrometer wrong. ... while you're correct that you need to temperature correct it if the temperature is changing throughout you're testing, it should also be calibrated against distilled water due to manufacturing defects. Drop it in some distilled water and temperature correct it; it should read 1.000. If not, adjust by this amount each time you take a measurement.
 
I've tried to reply twice but I can't seem to get my replies posted. Hopefully, third time's the charm.

@darigoni
Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.

@devin
No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.

@joe
I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes.

@Squatchy
Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.

So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?
 
I've been meaning to reply sooner but it seems I'm getting that bug where it says my posts need to be approved by a moderator. I've messaged vicki already and hopefully that gets sorted out. Trying to reply through my phone this time. Everytime I write down my reply again, it gets more and more condensed so please bare with me.

@darigoni
Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.

@devin
No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.

@joe
I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes. However, since my mead has gone dry which correlates with the hydrometer, I doubt the calibration is a problem.

@Squatchy
Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.

So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?
 
@darigoni
Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.

@devin
No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.

@joe
I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes.

@Squatchy
Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.

So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?
 
@darigoni
Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.

@devin
No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.

@joe
I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes.

@Squatchy
Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.

So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?
 
@darigoni
Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.

@devin
No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.

@joe
I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes.

@Squatchy
Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.

So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?
 
@darigoni
Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.

@devin
No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.

@joe
I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes.

@Squatchy
Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.

So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?
 
Hello all! This is kenyashiuang. Sorry for my disappearance. I've been trying to reply to this thread but I keep getting that message about my post having to be approved by a moderator. I believe it's a bug as per that thread by Vicky. I've messaged her a couple of days back but I guess she's rather busy so I've made a new account instead.

@darigoni
Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.

@devin
No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.

@joe
I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes.

@Squatchy
Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.

So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?
 
Sorry for my disappearance. I've been meaning to reply but it always tells me that I need to have my post approved by a moderator. I believe it's a bug as per that thread by Vicky. I've messaged her a couple of days back but she hasn't gotten back to me. Anyway, I'm trying to reply through a proxy and hopefully this works.

@darigoni
Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.

@devin
No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.

@joe
I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes.

@Squatchy
Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.

So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?
 
Sorry for the disappearance. I can't seem to post anything without being told that my post has to be approved by a moderator. I believe it's a bug with vBulletin as per Vicky's thread. I've messaged her a couple of days back but she hasn't gotten back to me. I've cleared my browsing history, cookies, and cache. Hopefully that fixes it.

@darigoni
Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.

@devin
No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.

@joe
I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes.

@Squatchy
Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.

So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?
 
@darigoni

Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.


@devin

No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.


@joe

I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes.


@Squatchy

Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.


So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
 
@darigoni

Yes I have read Squatchy's thread. It's from there I got the idea of backsweetening. I admit I am lacking knowledge in YAN and SNA but I thought it would be better to have some experience first as I believe it makes the absorption of knowledge easier. And I do listen to the podcasts but only when my work requires me to do long drives. The podcasts help alleviate and pass the time when I'm stuck in traffic.


@devin

No, that's not what I expected at all. On the 21st day, I am supposed to rack to secondary. So I expected to reach 1.010 some time when in secondary. The book makes no mention of back sweetening.


@joe

I'll try doing that distilled water test later today and see how it goes.


@Squatchy

Exactly which is why I don't believe that could have been the cause.


So my question now is where do I go from here with my batch? From what everyone has told me, I don't need to give up on it. There doesn't seem to be any activity in the must going on anymore. Should I just go ahead and rack to secondary and leave it there for the time being?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk
 
Hi kenyashiuang - and welcome.

Here's my take on this - for what it's worth. Take a deep breath and relax. Just because the yeast have eaten up all the fermentables and have replaced them with alcohol and CO2 does not mean that the mead is ready. Take another deep breath. Yeast are good housekeepers and during active fermentation they will have produced all kinds of chemical compounds - some you will like and some you won't like as much. Give the yeast time and they will clean up after themselves. Twenty one days is not long enough for most yeast strains. Let them be. They will clean their room and make their beds.

I don't have Steve P's book to hand and I don't know what kind of fermenter he typically uses but if your primary fermenter is a bucket or a carboy with a lot of headroom then you really want to rack (transfer) the mead from the primary to a fermenter that you can fill right to the tippy top - no headroom - as soon as the gravity drops close to 1.000 . This is because during active fermentation the yeast is pumping out carbon dioxide and that gas forms a blanket over the top of your mead preventing any air (oxygen) getting to the mead. When active fermentation comes to an end and there is no more sugar left for the yeast to ferment they stop burping out CO2 and that blanket of CO2 will soon get very threadbare as the CO2 and the air co-mingle. Over time oxygen in the air will oxidize the mead (think rust) and oxidation spoils the flavors. I tend to use an hydrometer to flag me when it's time to rack the mead rather than my calendar. I am sure that Steve does too so I don't really understand what the 21 days are all about. But - and take another deep breath and relax - I would think about racking your mead sooner rather than later. Tonight. Tomorrow. The next day. But sooner rather than later. Another 24 hours is not going to do any irreparable damage. But I would look for a narrow necked container that I could fill right up into the neck and seal the mouth with a bung and an airlock.
It's really good that you are tasting your mead. BUT don't expect the mead to taste outstanding after 8 days, or 21 days or 2 months. Remember the yeast WILL clean up after themselves but they clean up in yeast time and not in human time. Give the yeast a couple of months. And remember too that your mead is brut dry. Most of us when we think "honey" we think sweetness... but with this mead you have flavor from the honey - not sweetness. Two very different aspects... and you may prefer your mead sweeter rather than drier... OK you can sweeten it before you bottle. But just now... allow the yeast the space and time it needs to clean up.
 
Last edited: