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American Mead Makers Association

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Dragonslayer

Dragonslayer

NewBee
Registered Member
Dec 22, 2008
76
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Lakewood, WA
www.dragonslairmeads.com
I am just going to throw this out there and see where it lands. I already expect some criticism and nay-sayers, but I think the time has come to take another shot at a mead makers organization.

When I first made the decision to go commercial some two years ago (still working on that) I recognized the absence and the need for such an association and have talked with several leaders in the industry about forming one. They all expressed an interest and recognized the necessity, but it was not until Brad Dahlhofer created a Facebook page last January that anyone did anything about.

There was some discussion on the facebook page about whether it should be the American Mead Makers Association, the North American Mead Makers Association or the International Mead Makers Association. We settled on the American Mead Makers Association primarily because of jurisdiction and wanting to be able to affect regulation in the US. I then created a logo and threw together a simple one page website to try and spark some interest.

Sad to say there has been very little movement since then. Yet every day I see comments on facebook about one issue or another about how Michigan Meadery and Hunters Moon and others are having a hard time getting labels approved by TTB. They and others on this very forum are constantly calling for a banding together of the industry to change the governments arcane rules concerning mead.

A few days ago I sat down and expanded the one page website to about a half dozen. It now has a basic structure for an industry association including membership. This is only a working draft. Once the association is up and running and there are some funds available it will be redone with all the fancy bells and whistle like online membership registration and the ability to pay dues electronically.

Some other things I have thought of is to ask Vicky to create a forum section on GotMead just for the Association. After it has proven its viability of course.

The Association should also have an annual meeting where board elections would occur and committees could meet to discuss issues. My thought is this should happen in conjunction with the Mazer Cup. I would also like to toss out the question at this time to the MCI committee that the Association be able to set up a booth at the competition and that we discuss the possibility of offering a discount on entry fees and door fees for Association members.

The Association will be recognized and operated as a separate entity from the MCI and will be incorporated as a 501(c)3 which should help in avoiding some of the pitfalls that proved detrimental to previous incarnations. It will also make dues and donations tax deductible.

I have created and managed several such organizations so I have some experience. I have some time and am willing to put in the initial effort to get the American Mead Makers Association off the ground and on the map, but I need some feedback. All commentary is welcome as this Association will not be a benefit to only the commercial meaderies but to the entire industry including the hobbiests. And lets please keep it civil. If you disagree than say you disagree, but rudeness will not be tolerated. This forum will be our primary means of discussion for now so all comments will be public.

This is the point where I would encourage you to go to the website and check it out. Then send in a membership application so we can get started. My intent is to accrue any dues received over the next 60 days or so before doing anything. If however before that time we receive enough monies to incorporate, establish non-profit status, set up a bank account, do some basic printing then I will take care of those business matters. If by 15 December there is not enough funds to take care these basic needs I will take that as a lack of sufficient interest at this time and all monies will be returned.

http://www.webbergroup.com/meadmakersassn.htm

http://www.facebook.com/pages/American-Mead-Makers-Association/180847631935462
 
mmclean said:
American Mead Makers Association

...so this would include Canada, U.S., Mexico, and all of South America?
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I had a conversation not long ago with one of my Canadian cousins (actual blood relative) where I referred to the U.S. as America. He laughed and said, "What is it with you people, ay? Don't you know we are Americans too?" So I asked him, when you travel to Europe and they ask you where you are from, do you say America or Canada?

No one I know who is from any other country in the western hemisphere outside of the U.S. refers to themselves as an American. They state with pride, as they should, they are a citizen of Brazil or Venezuela or Panama or Canada, ay! Only people from the United States of America refer to themselves as Americans. Been that way for 300 years. Far be it from me to change it.
 
It's fun to laugh at it (because it is kinda silly, but what else are Americans going to call themselves? There's no real proper name for the country, it's more of an explanation of what the country is and where (loosely) it's located... USAian? ;) )... but yeah, it is definitely clear when something is called "American" that it refers to the USA. ;D

Oh, and "ay" is spelled "eh" !
 
AToE said:
Oh, and "ay" is spelled "eh" !
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This from a country that pronounces the last letter of the alphabet "zed". :rolleyes:

I am not familiar enough with Canadian liquor laws to know how they compare with ours, but I am sure they are as equally arcane governments being what they are. Sometime down the road when the AMMA can stand on its own and effect significant improvements in our own laws then maybe we can expand north and south. For now, the best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time.
 
Dragonslayer said:
This from a country that pronounces the last letter of the alphabet "zed". :rolleyes:
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Yeah, not sure why we do that! But, in our defence, Americans also spell it "eh" (and say it the same way, just at different times!), you're the first person I've ever seen spell it like that. ;)

I am not familiar enough with Canadian liquor laws to know how they compare with ours, but I am sure they are as equally arcane governments being what they are. Sometime down the road when the AMMA can stand on its own and effect significant improvements in our own laws then maybe we can expand north and south. For now, the best way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time.
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Oh yeah, ours are nuts too. The province I live in actually has laws specifically for mead though that make it very easy and lucrative for beekeepers.

We almost certainly don't have enough meaderies (most are very small too)here yet anyways to really make much of an impact with an organization.
 
Dragonslayer said:
No one I know who is from any other country in the western hemisphere outside of the U.S. refers to themselves as an American.
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So, what percentage of the western hemisphere do you know personally?

I have heard it more than once from Native Americans. From South America. In jest I assume.

Just saying.
 
Alright! As much as I enjoy a good semantics/poking fun at the USA conversation, we probably shouldn't derail this thread TOO much! ;) :D
 
Dragonslayer said:
I had a conversation not long ago with one of my Canadian cousins (actual blood relative) where I referred to the U.S. as America. He laughed and said, "What is it with you people, ay? Don't you know we are Americans too?" So I asked him, when you travel to Europe and they ask you where you are from, do you say America or Canada?

No one I know who is from any other country in the western hemisphere outside of the U.S. refers to themselves as an American. They state with pride, as they should, they are a citizen of Brazil or Venezuela or Panama or Canada, ay! Only people from the United States of America refer to themselves as Americans. Been that way for 300 years. Far be it from me to change it.
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Not so sure, from the Rio Grande to the south, with no ofense, you're known as Greengos ;)
 
As much as I am enjoying the bantar on the name I would really like to get some comments on the Association itself. What we really need is about a half dozen meaderies to sign up at the Corporate level so we can get this thing launched and start effecting some change in the regulations.
 
As a hobbyist, I scratch my head and ask, "how does it help me?" and I don't see a clear answer.

Were I running a commercial operation, I'd ask the same question, and at the moment, I don't see a clear answer. Can an organization like this be useful to the industry? I would certainly think so. However, to get formed and operating, I think you will need to call on the other commercial operations and talk to the folks running them about what industry-wide problems are being confronted that need pooled effort to be addressed.

I suspect that the labeling issues with the TTB could be a good starting point. If there is a common problem and folks can pool some resources to hire an appropriate attorney/lobbyist to get the TTB to change it, you'd have the underpinning for an industry association. This will probably require picking up the phone and talking to folks more than creating websites and infrastructure, but that's strictly one guy's opinion.

Long term, such an association might be able to sponsor some really useful research that will help all mead crafters.
 
Medsen Fey said:
As a hobbyist, I scratch my head and ask, "how does it help me?" and I don't see a clear answer.

Were I running a commercial operation, I'd ask the same question, and at the moment, I don't see a clear answer. Can an organization like this be useful to the industry? I would certainly think so. However, to get formed and operating, I think you will need to call on the other commercial operations and talk to the folks running them about what industry-wide problems are being confronted that need pooled effort to be addressed.

I suspect that the labeling issues with the TTB could be a good starting point. If there is a common problem and folks can pool some resources to hire an appropriate attorney/lobbyist to get the TTB to change it, you'd have the underpinning for an industry association. This will probably require picking up the phone and talking to folks more than creating websites and infrastructure, but that's strictly one guy's opinion.

Long term, such an association might be able to sponsor some really useful research that will help all mead crafters.
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Thanks for the input. You express some legitimate concerns. Like you I am just one guy and my comments at this point are also just my opinion. I can see where it is difficult to envision a benefit for hobbyiest by such an organization, however, as you pointed out there could eventually be some research that could prove useful. Somebody had to lobby for President Carter to lift the ban on homebrewing beer which we can see how that hobby has been significantly improved.

As far as approaching the commercial meaderies who would clearly benefit the most I have every intention of sending emails and making phone calls. GotMead.com just seemed like a good place to start since just about everybody in the world who has anything to do with mead is a member. It seemed like the logical place to anchor the conversation.

While having a lawyer on retainer to lobby TTB for change it is not necessary. I have successfully lobbied in my own state for changes in our laws so I know that the biggest part of making it happen is just showing up. Someone approaching TTB (not necessarily me) in the name of AMMA representing the industry would carry a lot of weight.

As I said earlier I have formed other such organizations. I am very familiar with the process and requirements and I already have an attorney who is willing to give advice.
 
There's one that I know about and can chime in on. The first problem is that ONLY traditional meads can be labelled "Mead" - which is obviously a huge problem. Melomels have to be called melomels, so forth and so on. I think "mead" is it's own category to the government in the USA, but mead "mixed" with anything else is not considered mead, it falls into some kind of "other" category. That's my understanding of this anyways.

Labelling aside, I personally think another huge problem for meaderies in the US (not sure about up here in Canada but I'll bet it's similar) is that meaderies are considered wineries - and NO malt is allowed into wineries (due to whacky lobbying back in the stone age I think). As such, meaderies cannot produce braggots (Redstone I think is the ONE meadery that pulled it off, by setting up a brewery as well, and then blending later, that's expensive though). This might seem minor to some people, but I think it's a really big deal because I think craft beer drinkers are the #1 target for mead, and braggots would be an excellent way to introduce them and get them curious.
 
AToE said:
There's one that I know about and can chime in on. The first problem is that ONLY traditional meads can be labelled "Mead" - which is obviously a huge problem. Melomels have to be called melomels, so forth and so on. I think "mead" is it's own category to the government in the USA, but mead "mixed" with anything else is not considered mead, it falls into some kind of "other" category. That's my understanding of this anyways.

Labelling aside, I personally think another huge problem for meaderies in the US (not sure about up here in Canada but I'll bet it's similar) is that meaderies are considered wineries - and NO malt is allowed into wineries (due to whacky lobbying back in the stone age I think). As such, meaderies cannot produce braggots (Redstone I think is the ONE meadery that pulled it off, by setting up a brewery as well, and then blending later, that's expensive though). This might seem minor to some people, but I think it's a really big deal because I think craft beer drinkers are the #1 target for mead, and braggots would be an excellent way to introduce them and get them curious.
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This is spot on. The biggest problem with labeling is the way TTB classifies mead. It should have its own class with its own rules. And yes, meaderies are classified as wineries so the no malt on premises rule applies, ergo no braggot. Widmer Bros out of Portland market a braggot although I am not sure how they are making it as does Rabbits Foot. I have seen others so it is being done. I have some beer making buddies who are getting their license as well. We have already been collaborating on a braggot and just about perfected the recipe. Just not sure yet how to go about marketing it.

At any rate, these are the main issues an Associations need to be formed for. To provide a collective voice for the industry.
 
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