Why isn't mead more mainstream?

[Brad Dahlhofer]

Thanks for all the forum love everyone! As for my dry stuff, just you wait. The list is just going to get longer. The new dry Orange Blossom is now available. We're also going to be revisiting the dry Tupelo and some more dry melomels this year.

As for my take on the mead as a wine/ or uniquely its own. Sometimes I just have to explain it to people so they'll understand. I inevitably compare it to a wine because most people understand it better that way. I'm not offended. I just gotta do what I gotta do.

I think that mead may never be the worlds most popular beverage, but it has a tremendous amount of room for growth. Most people that buy our meads are NEW to mead. They might be wine drinkers or beer drinkers or both. The most important thing is to get people to just TRY them. ALL of them. There is almost always one of our meads that someone doesn't like. But there is also almost always one that they DO like. That's why I make so many different ones. It's not like they're going to get bad if they age a little while in the bottle while I try to sell them all.

I'm all about exploring the craft, my own tastes, our fans' tastes, and the tastes of those that AREN'T buying them.

 

[TheAlchemist]

I'm all about exploring the craft...

Yep! Me, too.
It's an adventure!

 

[havoc64]

I think that variety is the spice of life. Going to a vineyard and sampling all of their wine, you do find one that is too dry or too sweet or even too tart. Mead is the same.

I applaud Brad and all the other Professional Meaderies for giving the world a chance to sample and possibly fall in love with this wonderful beverage.

Hey Brad, do you guys ship to Kansas Yet? I really really want to try some of you mead!

Mike

 

[Matrix4b]

For my part, I have only about a dozen batches of 5-6 gal range under my belt. I still consider myself new, only had one batch that was bad, watermellon. I think that the juice went bad prior to fermentation. Anyway, I have read where many people have done research as to going pro.

What I have been able to gather, in america that is, the government doesn't know how to clasify mead and the wineries like it that way. There are no laws for a Meadery directly. There are laws for Brewery (beer) and Winery (Wine) and for hard alcohols (Distilery) but no Meadery. True that most Meaderies have classified themselves as Wineries that produce "Honey Wine" but that is about as far as it goes. Due to the Prohibition and a host of other things consering laws and taxation of our brew, it tends to make it more difficult to get into the large scale of things.

On another note is the quality of honey. Honey is more flexible than grapes in flavor of juice. Honey also has no year after year consistancy that grains have. Grapes have vintages and that is the key to their varance in taste. Grape type (and Blend type of grapes) + Year of growth of wines = vintange and type of wine. The same can't be said of mead. Also, our product of Honey does not truely have an expiration date. It can solidify and that can lead to spoilage but baring that one batch of honey that is kept in good condition and prevented from spoiling can be used when it is needed. As mentioned in this thread: TIME is our enemy. Beer turn around is a few weeks. Wine turn around for fresh wine is more like a few months. When we then go out to aging a year or more and don't have a high cost that aged scotch does $/volume then our cause is more rough. Dispite this adversity: Mead market is growing. I would say that in America it is like a craft brew but still doesn't have the recognition or the volume that they do. So we are at the nitch market again.

Now what may help is aging techniques. If we can get a tasty product to be around 5% ABV like beer and consistant then we can compete better. If we have a turn around of maybe a couple of months aging at most then it would improve the popularity. Supply and Demand. You get a quick not easily forgoten supply that can ramp up with popularity like a beer can then we are in business.

I have read online that some genius out there has applied ultrasonics to wine to make a table wine rapid age and taste like a good aged wine quickly. Like aging it taste-wise in only a few hours, what takes a couple of years to do.

Has anyone experimented with this for Mead? To some it would be seen as cheating but comertially speaking, many techniues that are used in wine and beer are cheating. Like the very sophisticated filtering systems they have for wine to clear them in a very short time. Can we make a good mead product in varying degrees of taste as quickly as beer? And make it cheaply and by mead standards low ABV% like beer. Beer is mostly around 3-5% for most comercial beers. Imports like Guiness is like 9%, closer to mead but more expensive like wine in cost.

If we can make drinkable, this type of product that tastes just like or better than our home beers then all we need to worry about is marketing and laws. Easier hurdles than the magic element of TIME.

That's my $0.02 worth. Not that I would give up homebrewing. But in order to think on a large scale of popularity, comercial aspects of competition need to be satisfied. It's business, not personal. To many of us our homebrewing is personal.

 

[Dan McFeeley]

Another idea for the Ken Schramm series -- combine a "Dirty Jobs" theme with Food Network themes. Ken visits a meadery, pitches in, does the hard work, afterwards sips the finished product and does food pairings.

This sub-thread remnds of me of my days with the Bloomingdale Jaycees, too many years ago that I care to remember, when I was living in New Jersey. End of year election nomination meetings went like this -- no one wanted to fill the positions of president, vp, treasurer, ect. So, whenever someone visited the bathroom, we nominated him for the position, when he wasn't able to object.

Ken is going to read this thread and find out that we voted him for a food network job. ;D

--

 

[TheAlchemist]

Another idea for the Ken Schramm series -- combine a "Dirty Jobs" theme with Food Network themes. Ken visits a meadery, pitches in, does the hard work, afterwards sips the finished product and does food pairings. Ken is going to read this thread and find out that we voted him for a food network job. ;D

--

I'm all for it. Might even bother to get a functional TV.

 

[mccann51]

What I have been able to gather, in america that is, the government doesn't know how to clasify mead and the wineries like it that way. There are no laws for a Meadery directly. There are laws for Brewery (beer) and Winery (Wine) and for hard alcohols (Distilery) but no Meadery. True that most Meaderies have classified themselves as Wineries that produce "Honey Wine" but that is about as far as it goes. Due to the Prohibition and a host of other things consering laws and taxation of our brew, it tends to make it more difficult to get into the large scale of things.

I agree. Out of curiosity, I was looking up the cost of wine permits in my state; there are two types: a farm winery permit that is ~1,100$; and, a full winery permit, ~11,000$. The former you can only ferment wines with fruit that can be grown in state, with the latter being more open and allowing for the fermentation of honey. That is an order of magnitude greater for a permit to ferment a sugar source (ie honey) that is still produced in state. It seems completely arbitrary, and a real hinderance to having small start-ups.

Now what may help is aging techniques. If we can get a tasty product to be around 5% ABV like beer and consistant then we can compete better. If we have a turn around of maybe a couple of months aging at most then it would improve the popularity. Supply and Demand. You get a quick not easily forgoten supply that can ramp up with popularity like a beer can then we are in business.

I have read online that some genius out there has applied ultrasonics to wine to make a table wine rapid age and taste like a good aged wine quickly. Like aging it taste-wise in only a few hours, what takes a couple of years to do.

My understanding is that the "ultrasonic aging" thing is a scam. Also, a 5% mead would probably be a very watery product. I think professional meaderies do only age for a few months, anyway.

 

[AToE]

My ex also suggested doing low ABV sparkling meads in the style of beer or coolers (shudder). I just can't see it being good without being stabilized, backsweetened, force carb'd - and even then, it's a really weird version of mead if you ask me.

Take a glass of 12% or 15% mead you've made and mix it with 2 more glasses of water. Bang, there's an idea of how difficult making this good would be.

EDIT: Also, it seems like most meaderies do have a solid array of products they can turn around in a couple/few months, which is plenty fast enough.

 

[Brad Dahlhofer]

Thanks!

I'm pretty sure we can ship to Kansas. Just follow the links to Winebuys.com from the Buy Online section of our website. It'll take you right to our page on their site.

Cheers!

I think that variety is the spice of life. Going to a vineyard and sampling all of their wine, you do find one that is too dry or too sweet or even too tart. Mead is the same.

I applaud Brad and all the other Professional Meaderies for giving the world a chance to sample and possibly fall in love with this wonderful beverage.

Hey Brad, do you guys ship to Kansas Yet? I really really want to try some of you mead!

Mike

 

[Brad Dahlhofer]

Imports like Guiness is like 9%, closer to mead but more expensive like wine in cost.

I'm pretty sure Guiness is more like 3.9% ABV

 

[AToE]

Thanks!

I'm pretty sure we can ship to Kansas. Just follow the links to Winebuys.com from the Buy Online section of our website. It'll take you right to our page on their site.

Cheers!

Nothing to Canada yet though I imagine? I might be better off trying to buy some in the US and have it shipped to me or something.

EDIT: Hey, and you finally added more of your line-up to your site, I see dry orange blossom in the regular lineup now, that's gotta be new!

 

[Brad Dahlhofer]

My ex also suggested doing low ABV sparkling meads in the style of beer or coolers (shudder). I just can't see it being good without being stabilized, backsweetened, force carb'd - and even then, it's a really weird version of mead if you ask me.

Our Zombie Killer cherry cyser is only 6% ABV and is pretty tasty in my opinion. And the judges that gave it a gold medal at the mazer cup must have thought so, too.

 

[AToE]

Our Zombie Killer cherry cyser is only 6% ABV and is pretty tasty in my opinion. And the judges that gave it a gold medal at the mazer cup must have thought so, too.

The "shudder" was aimed at the coolers, not at the idea of this style of mead, don''t worry!

My main worry making something like that would be whether any honey could show, being in such a small concentration (how'd you get a cyser to 6% by the way? Some water in the must? Generally apple juice alone will take you to 5/6% or higher from what I've seen).

Man - you have SO MANY kinds of mead that aren't on your website!

 

[wildoates]

Alan, stop it! I don't want to know what they don't have on their website!

/torture

 

[akueck]

Our Zombie Killer cherry cyser is only 6% ABV and is pretty tasty in my opinion. And the judges that gave it a gold medal at the mazer cup must have thought so, too.

Aha! That must have been the "serve cold, Zombies don't like cold" mead. That whole flight was all sparkling fruit (raspberry or cherry) cysers, very strange. I did like that one though, apparently enough to push it along. (memories are not terribly clear ) I like the "genre" of the session meads, makes it more accessible and a "have one after work" kind of beverage.

 

[moonie]

I'm pretty sure Guiness is more like 3.9% ABV

That maybe the case for the U.S. or Canadian brewed Guiness but I can assure you the Guiness I had recently that was imported from Ireland was 9%. Local home brew store sells wines, meads and lots of interesting beers had a tasting a month ago of about 6 different imported Irish beers, from lighter to darker, the Guiness was the darkest.

 

[wayneb]

While I'm sure that Guinness is one of the darkest brews sold commercially, I'm also sure (having visited the brewery at St. James' Gate a few years back) that Guinness Draught clocks in at an ABV of between 4.1 and 4.3%. It is in fact a relative lightweight, where ethanol is concerned. That is in fact part of the reason that it sells so well in the home country. It is the ultimate "session stout," where a pint or two won't come close to getting you hammered.

 

[moonie]

It would seem we are all incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness

Seems it ranges from about 4% to 8%

What I had was the Guinness Foreign Extra Stout at what appears to have been 7.5%

 

[wayneb]

Not at all. If you had mentioned you were drinking the "Foreign Extra," from a bottle rather than on draught, I'd have known what you were talking about, although claiming 9% you were mislead a bit to the high side. But Guinness comes in an array of sub-styles and strengths, and for that matter is fermented world-wide in a variety of breweries. Whenever someone mentions that they're drinking Guinness from Ireland I immediately think they're talking about the draught Guinness, since most of the bottled varieties in other parts of the world (i.e. not in the EC) are coming from breweries not located anywhere near Dublin. While the base wort is derived from a common Guinness recipe (and for some of the varieties the base wort originates from Dublin), the various bottled brews get modified in different places, and that is what is in part responsible for the wide variance in ABV between the different Guinness branded products - heck, they can even vary in strength within one product line (the Foreign Extra is a good example) depending on what brewery actually implements the fermentation. Last I knew (and my info is a couple of decades old now) the majority of the Foreign Extra sold in North America was actually brewed in Canada - by a division of Labatt's. I stand by my original statement, that Guinness draught (the one from the brewery in Dublin) ranges from 4.1 to 4.3% ABV. BTW - the origin of the Foreign Extra in North America being in Canada allows Guinness to mark those bottles as "Imported" when sold in the US, and that (somewhat intentionally) obfuscates the actual source of the beer.

 

[Smarrikåka]

One thing that I think more meaderies should start doing, is putting the year on the label, and preferably also more information about the honey (what kind of honey it is, and what area it is from) and also for the other ingredients used. This will require a lot more paper and labelwork, since every time you make something it needs to basically be a new product. I think most meaderies don't do this simply because they don't have to.
But I think it's pretty much a requirement, in order to get serious attention from the high-end wine buying crowd, who generally are very curious about that sort of thing.
The downside is that it might be a bottleneck due to the limited supply, to get that huge "nationwide" launches for a product. But in most cases that's just hoping for too much at any rate.