Why isn't mead more mainstream?

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One other thing to note -- for fermentation purposes, you can't compare volumes of grapes directly to volumes of honey (or weights, for that matter). While grapes provide about 75-80% of their total volume as directly fermentable juice at an equivalent SG of around 1.090, you'd have to dilute your honey significantly to get it down to that SG. So, a given volume of honey will yield far more fermentable must (once diluted) than an equal volume of crushed grapes.

Was that taken into account with your quick and dirty math? I should think that once the difference is taken into account, the cost difference between the two equivalent musts would be much smaller.

yes. i did a rough calc on grapejuice vers honey used to achieve the required amount of must. its only rough but being the difference is so big the amount of error is not worth worrying about.

please note, i deliberately left out the $$$$$. trying to compare two completely different industries $$$ wise is a nightmare. you could argue that you can buy grapes at $$$ per ton, but that can vary greatly depending on market conditions which may not effect beekeepers at all.
also the $$ of the raw ingredients does not necessarily mean you are going to make a $$$ when you sell (or not sell) the final product.
hence i compared what work load a person would do to get required raw products.
 
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One person = 200-600 hives, depending on how hard you want to work.

200 hives = 25,000 lbs honey. (Based on 127 lbs, 7 yr average I saw posted at beesource.com. YMMV

25,000 lbs honey = 8,466 gal mead @ 3 lbs per gal.

8,466 gal mead = 3,557 cases

Ian posted that he thought if he sold 1200 cases, his 3rd year goal, he would be taking home about 50k-70k.

I don't know, seems doable to me.
 
doable is easy.

my point is if your making 16,000 gal of mead (400 hives) your still a long way off your wine counterpart who does 40,000 gal of wine, so your always going to struggle with price if you both are chasing the same market.
 
EDIT: Does anyone know what price range of wine sells best? I would imagine $10-$15 per bottle is the biggest seller, thats the range everyone I know buys in anyways, not the bottom of the barrel cheap, but not hard on the wallet either.

I'm told by our retailers that the under $10 market is the hottest in terms of bottles sold..
 
I'm guessing it's company size, wineries that are similar sizes to these meaderies are putting out much higher priced products, and most/all of the 15$ range stuff is being done by bigger players who can get costs down even lower?

Our year-round meads generally retail for about $15/$16 for a 750ml bottle. Just sayin'.
 
I've got over 1,700 Facebook fans and 2,500 newsletter recipients that would disagree with that statement. ;)

Well, I'm in Canada so nobody here has had your offerings! ;D You guys seem to be one of a smaller group of the already small group of pro meadmakers that makes the good stuff frankly, your selection looks like stuff that would appeal to people on this forum as meadmakers too, most other meaderies produce desert syrup and that seems to be it!

I'm seriously excited to get to try your meads at the Mazer cup since I can't seem to get it shipped to my house.

Note too that when I say no one I've talked to that's tried mead has liked it, 95% of the people I talk to haven't ever even tried it at all! The other 5% all hate it because it's "too sweet" or if they're really unlucky they got a super-sweet over-spiced mead, then it's just game over, they'll never go near the stuff again.
I'm told by our retailers that the under $10 market is the hottest in terms of bottles sold..

That makes sense, I get what Wayne posted about 15$ being a sweet spot, not too cheap not too expensive, but in pretty much all types of retail, the cheapest of the cheap is where you really get fast turn around.

If I owned a meadery and could get my "standard" meads sold for $13-$15 per bottle (remember too we have higher alcohol taxes here, so margins are slimmer), and then have some aged "reserve" meads going for $18-$30 per bottle I'd be very happy.

A huge part of me wants to consider giving it a go in 5 or more years (not experienced a meadmaker enough yet to even consider it), simply because I know I can get good investment/loan dollars and I think my tastes in mead would bring something new to the table - but I know I'm not prepared for how much non-fun work it would be, or for the extreme risks of that industry.
 
Our year-round meads generally retail for about $15/$16 for a 750ml bottle. Just sayin'.

I always forget that because I remember seeing most of them online for more like $20 (which is a price I have no issue paying for mead, because I know what's up, but is steep for someone not into it yet). I think you're right where I'd want to be if I was selling the stuff.
 
One of the good things about our mead tasting parties is that I've had the chance to try quite a few commercial meads and be with my friends who are, while not mead experts, avid wine drinkers. One of the things I've noticed is that although they SAY they prefer dryer wines, when they don't know in advance what's in their glass, they always score the sweeter ones higher than the dryer ones. Most of the craft meads I've tasted have some residual sweetness, but they're not like Chaucer's or Bunratty's not really Meade.

It might be that more experienced mead drinkers appreciate the skill that goes into making a balanced dry mead, but most people expect it to be sweet (it's honey, dagnabit!) and indeed prefer it to be sweet (not syrupy, but a nice balance of tart and sweet). I can't blame the commercial meaderies for putting out the sweeter meads if that's what people want to buy.

I've had several of Brad's meads, all were on the sweeter end of the scale, and all were excellent. They score high at our mead tasting get-togethers. If we could get them here and get people to TRY them, I don't think BevMo could keep them in stock. the same goes for some of the other craft meads I've tasted--and the Chaucer's could sit on the shelf and collect dust.
 
I think a balanced sweetness is definitely to most people's tastes (even meadmakers, look at what 99% of the recipes on this site are, and they ain't dry), and I don't know if dry would frankly to everyone's tastes unless it was done really well.

The meads I'm talking about aren't balanced sweet though, they're simply gross, at least to the tastes of most people I've spoken with. Even people who happily drink wine coolers and really sweet mixed drinks won't go near them! I haven't tried Chaucers, but it sounds like something similar is what most people up here have tried.

I know it's not just myself, I generally don't like much sweetness for sure, but these are people who do, and admit that they do, and still think mead has to be syrup thanks to their previous experiences!

I have no doubt at all that even I with my anti-sweet-tooth will enjoy Brad's offerings!
 
I think a balanced sweetness is definitely to most people's tastes (even meadmakers, look at what 99% of the recipes on this site are, and they ain't dry), and I don't know if dry would frankly to everyone's tastes unless it was done really well.

Not having tasted many meads in my life (only once before I started making it myself) I don't know what people expect in MEAD in terms of sweetness. However, I have been involved with wine tasting for many years in different countries (UK, France, Spain, Chile, Argentina) and I believe that dry WINES have a significant size of the market, due to consumer preferences. Even in white wines, dry wines are also much sought after (e.g. Chablis/Chardonnay; Viura, Rueda, Viognier, etc). Although sweet white wines do have a market (e.g. sauternes, tokay, etc), I don't know whether that market is larger than that of dry white wines. As to me mead is a type of wine, I have tried to make my meads as dry, oaked, etc as to resemble one of the good (dry) wines I have tasted. Not that I have succeeded, of course ;D but one can only keep trying....

Does other people here share the belief that semi-sweet mead is more appealing to people in general? I am curious.
 
Although sweet white wines do have a market (e.g. sauternes, tokay, etc), I don't know whether that market is larger than that of dry white wines.

The dry white wine market is much larger than the sweet market. That wasn't always true. Sweet wines were highly favored during much of recorded history. However, through the centuries, options for a sweet beverage were limited. Sugar became widely available only a few hundred years ago. Prior to that you could only sweeten beverages with honey. Fruit juices wouldn't keep long, and a sweetened beverage would spoil quickly. Sweet wines were the only sweet beverage that could be stored and kept for lengthy periods, making them very desirable.

Now of course, anytime someone wants a sweet beverage, there's a Coke machine at their finger tips, and countless other options as well. So sweet wines don't hold the cherished placed in our hearts that they did for our ancestors.
Does other people here share the belief that semi-sweet mead is more appealing to people in general? I am curious.

For traditional meads, I often prefer semi-sweet. For my tastes, that increases the honey character.
 
Does other people here share the belief that semi-sweet mead is more appealing to people in general? I am curious.

For me, I don't like grape wine. I also don't like cheese, so I'm not ruining my steak with wine and I don't ruin wine with molded cheese. For me to enjoy it, it needs to have at least *some* sweetness to it, but hopefully I'll learn to enjoy other aspects as well.

As a *portal* to mead drinking, I would think semi-sweet or semi-dry would be ideal. When the market grows, I believe there will be good place for both sweet and dry versions as well.

At least that's my couple of cents worth ;)
 
One of the things I've noticed is that although they SAY they prefer dryer wines, when they don't know in advance what's in their glass, they always score the sweeter ones higher than the dryer ones.

I think a balanced sweetness is definitely to most people's tastes (even meadmakers, look at what 99% of the recipes on this site are, and they ain't dry), and I don't know if dry would frankly to everyone's tastes unless it was done really well.

...

I know it's not just myself, I generally don't like much sweetness for sure, but these are people who do, and admit that they do, and still think mead has to be syrup thanks to their previous experiences!

Does other people here share the belief that semi-sweet mead is more appealing to people in general? I am curious.

I agree, I think semi-sweet is probably where it's at. People drinking wine coolers (no offense to your friends, AToE, haha) are probably not the target market for a 10-15$ bottle of mead. But people do like sugar (it's biology, baby!). That said, an unbalanced product and/or sucking down alcoholic-sugar water is not appealing to many people who are in that craft brew (brew in the general sense) market. Unfortunately, that is what's on most shelves. If I saw a bottle of anything by the people on this forum, I'd buy if for no other reason than I'm anxious to try a quality commercial product. Instead, I'm being asked to pay over 10$ for a 750ml of 11% "semi-sweet" traditional; that's either gonna be retardedly sweet or stupidly watery. It's not bad for a glass, but in terms of a sessionable, I feel like my teeth are coated in sugar half-way through the second glass. And I don't think I'm in the minority (of that hypothetical target market) on that. There simply aren't options for most people, most places (I look forward to the day when I can buy a quality bottle of mead as easily as a quality bottle of beer or wine), thus where we as homebrewers come in.
 
There's a lot of reasons why mead hasn't hit mainstream yet -- a major one is that the commercial production of mead is a developing industry, relatively new on the scene. I have a copy of the late Dr. Roger Morse's Master's Thesis, University of Cornell 1953 and according to his research at the time, much of the commercial production of mead was for Jewish sacramental purposes. That may not be totally accurate, but it does show that mead had a very limited market niche at the time.

The Meadery at Greenwich, now known as Betterbee Meadery, may have been the first facility devoted to mead production alone -- it was founded some time in the 1980s. More followed, but you can see that this wasn't so very long ago.

Academic research into the science of honey fermentation and commercial production of mead has been limited. The main center seems to have been the University of Cornell, championed by Roger Morse and Robert Kime, both of whom have passed away.

Some good lessons for promoting mead can be picked up from the history of winemaking in the US. There were a number of important changes and innovations made that pushed US wine to world class status. Some, using the name of the varietal grape on the labels, making strides to produce a "food wine" rather than the simple jug wines that had been prevalent on the market, or the links between wine and cuisine, wine and the table.

Some time ago, I ran a survey of commercial meadmaking in the US, for the then International Mead Association. Many meaderies were reluctant to release their yearly production figures so part of the conditions for the survey was that I would not publish any individual figures, only general sums and generalizations so as to give an idea of what mead production was like in the US. I still have all the returned survey forms and I'm staying true to my promise, but I think I can say this. Whatever you might think of Chauer's Mead, Bargetto Winery is doing something right. Their figures were well above everyone else, at the time I did the survey.

Many of the advances in awareness of mead, the promotion of mead, have been done by every day folk. The most successful mead assocition was the American Mead Association, founded by Pamela Spence. The Mazer Cup, same thing, started by Ken Schramm and Dan McConnell, it became *the* mead competition to enter. Everyone had been saying that a new mead book was needed for quite a few years, it happened with Ken Schramm's "Compleat Meadmaker" but Ken did this as something on the side, along with his regular job, family life, orchard care, fly fishing, and everything else he does. ;D Of course, there's Vickie Rowe and her venture into a web site just for the fun of it, at first ;D , and Oskaar's contributions to the site, and what they've both done in keeping the Boulder Colorado mead competition going, now the Mazer Cup International competition.

Historical background in the production of mead. There's a lot of room for improvement here. The honeymoon story about mead isn't true, yet it still turns up on a lot of mead promotion efforts. Mead has an international culture yet too much of the commercial promotion of mead focuses too much on Nordic folk. Eastern Europe and mead culture -- it's huge. Same thing with Africa. Brittany France -- I've been told that mead in Brittany is as common on grocery shelves as wine.

Phil Dunlap, who pens the cartoon strip Ink Pen, had some fun with commercial meadmaking and in the process poked a little fun at both Ken Schramm and myself (you have to read between the lines to catch it), pretty funny stuff but he had some good critiques on mead that are worth looking at. Go here:

http://www.gocomics.com/inkpen/

Click on the calendar to go to the first strip in the thread, starting March 17, 2008 (St. Patrick's Day!).

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