I couldn't agree with this more. Mead is an international phenomenon, yet it has been pigeon-holed into just being representative of Celtic and Nordic culture, which isn't everybody's thing.
Why isn't mead more mainstream?
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I couldn't agree with this more. Mead is an international phenomenon, yet it has been pigeon-holed into just being representative of Celtic and Nordic culture, which isn't everybody's thing.
Where is your proof of this statement? Many say it without formal proof, and now you say its not true without any background info. My research shows this to be true.
It's been well discussed on this forum and on the Mead Lover's Digest. Try a search and you should be able to turn up info.
A couple of references -- Eva Crane, a well respected authority on the history of honey and beekeeping, A Book of Honey, Oxford University Press, 1980, p. 132, where she notes the word honeymoon but specifically states that it does not refer to a month long feasting on honey. Also, try looking up the word honeymoon in the Oxford English Dictionary and you'll see the same thing.
Not trying to be a nay sayer, just looking for accuracy in reporting mead lore. There's plenty of magic and mystery in the old stories of mead, we should stick with those. Which is the point I'm trying to make here -- so long as mead is marginal, no one is going to question what we might say about mead or the history & lore of mead (also Phil Dunlap's point). If mead was more mainstream, we'd have folk looking over our shoulders and asking the same question you're asking -- where did you get that from?
I can say more here but I don't want to hijack the thread.
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A couple of references -- Eva Crane, a well respected authority on the history of honey and beekeeping, A Book of Honey, Oxford University Press, 1980, p. 132, where she notes the word honeymoon but specifically states that it does not refer to a month long feasting on honey. Also, try looking up the word honeymoon in the Oxford English Dictionary and you'll see the same thing.
Not trying to be a nay sayer, just looking for accuracy in reporting mead lore. There's plenty of magic and mystery in the old stories of mead, we should stick with those. Which is the point I'm trying to make here -- so long as mead is marginal, no one is going to question what we might say about mead or the history & lore of mead (also Phil Dunlap's point). If mead was more mainstream, we'd have folk looking over our shoulders and asking the same question you're asking -- where did you get that from?
I can say more here but I don't want to hijack the thread.
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More than one very interesting topic being discussed in this thread (mead pricing potential, whether the (fake but well-known) honeymoon story should be used as marketing for mead or not, what type of mead is more appealing to people (both meadmakers and others), etc). Maybe the thread should be split? Just an idea...
NYS. Based on your site, it looks like you don't distribute to NY or PA, unfortunately.
EDIT: Tycoon, it's not my thread, but it seems like a nice flowing discussion. Seems like breaking it up might break the momentum.
Not that you all don't alread know this, but I felt compelled to pass some knowledge that I have found while researching family ancestry and my lineage to Alfred the Great.
From what I have read the beginning of the end was the expansion of the Norman/French into what was typically Mead Country, England, the Anglo and Saxon areas of Germania and up into the Scandanavian regions. I am sure that Catholicism had a Major impact as well as the Roman Catholic Church spread so did the need for wine. Italy did have mead, but the "Church" used Grape wine, and mead started to be pushed aside.
The intermarriages of the Royal Families of Europe and the Expansion of the Holy Church I am sure was the beginning of the decline of mead as a favored beverage. It became un-refined to drink a peoples drink like mead.
It is evident that grapes became easier to grow and therefore easier to produce wine, mead became a "Niche" Common peoples drink. The Friars, and "peasants" made mead for consumption, while the Nobles and well to do, drank wine made outside of the Land of Brittan.
Mead never really recovered.
As for a celebrity, I am sure a couple of comments of a well named actor or actress would help push meads popularity, lets not can get Charlie Sheen to Mention it in one of his Wizard and Troll rants..LOL
Just my thoughts,
Mike
Well, I'm sorry if you've been mis-lead there Mike. Especially as there's little to no evidence for anyones lineage that far back. The greatest amount of available records are mainly Norman in origin. The Saxons didn't do a good job of recording stuff. What there is, or at least seems to be available for Saxon period (a.k.a. "the dark ages") comes from people like "the venerable Bede" and other ecclesiastic scholars, hence it's biased and incomplete.
Of course, there are some earlier references i.e. Roman stuff, but that's almost as incomplete as the Saxon stuff.
This is precisely why there's so much uncertainty about the rise and fall of meads. What was available before the Roman presence is pure conjecture. They did indeed bring wine and grapes as far north as Britain, but like a lot of stuff, there's a huge gap in the lost knowledge between their collapse and the arrival of "William the Bastard" in 1066 here. Hell, even the very fact that the saxons used natural building materials like wood etc mean that there's a lot that's just not known. Which makes discoveries like "Sutton Hoo" all the more important as it does prove that there was still some "advanced" (used advisedly) technology going on. Though as you rightly point out, the spread of Christianity is very relevant. Because it would allude to the presence of wines, albeit imported, for "church use".
Well, again, there's little evidence of that either. There are a few historical/archaic recipes that have been discovered/located in historical texts, that suggest that they might have been made for the consumption of various "Royals" (and the intermarriages of the European royal families was more about the power trip and not releasing their grasp on that power than anything else - damn, even today, there's still a lot of comment on both Diana, and the upcoming event of the 29th April, and another "commoner" being admitted to the illustrious ranks of the Windsors).
Pretty much all the available evidence/documentation (specifically that alluding to Britain), points toward mead not being suitable to industrial production techniques available at the time of the "industrial revolution". As it was already less hassle to import wines from Europe (specifically France) at the time, and to produce beer for the "masses" (which apart from many other reasons, was one of the causes of increased longevity/public health improvements).
During the various periods of mediaeval British royalty (and later) meads would have been "locally" produced, as there wasn't much industrialisation or centralisation of manufacture of anything. You only have to look at the history of where ships were built for the Royal Navy to see that. Some of the areas/locations of production haven't been used for 4 or 5 centuries, and even when they were, it was about locally available materials (oak for planking etc). If you looked into the time of Elizabeth the First, the higher levels of the nobility hated it, as while she did have some "palaces", it was the habit to descend on one of the other nobles with "the Royal Household" for a visit. They were expected to provide accomodation and food for the Royal party etc and the "visit" could last many, many months.
All of this kind of available info, does, unfortunately, point toward a lot of the origins of meads toward the Saxons, Angles, Vikings, etc etc, but that info is very limited and even using info from the countries of origin of those peoples doesn't really provide much conclusive proof.
Now that isn't such a bad idea. Hell not even someone as high profile as Chaz Sheen. Lets face it, some of the resurgence of "mead interest" has come, more recently, thanks to the writings of one J.K. Rowling and the spin off films.......
Just to have someone who's high profile in the wine world, say that mead is good, would be a boon.
Though whether it's us that are partly at fault is another question i.e. are we trying to make it "too wine like" ? Or is it that we've not managed to actually set any standard for the various types of meads made ?
Who knows ? Yes, it makes for interesting questions and a lot of conjecture on the subject but the lack of documented historical evidence means that it's very likely to stay as just "an interesting question"........
regards
fatbloke
Very interesting read. I would also like to add that there was an extreme lack of recorded history before the 18th century in the Scandinavian countries. Before the 13th century, it's almost completely lacking. One of the reasons for that was that Vikings believed in the magical powers of the runes, and that was the only alphabet in use. This alphabet (which really is a bad name, as it doesn't start with "alpha, beta" etc etc) would jinx you if you mixed characters in the wrong way. Thus, only people with magical powers would use it. The first real Scandinavian history recording, as far as I know, was by Snorre Sturlason - written in the 13th century. And this was more a written version of lore, as he had been told by his elders and had been passed down generations. Not really something to base anything on
We did have a lot of written history, but that disappeared when the library in Alexandria burned down. For some reason *they* recorded more of our history than we did.Also, as I wrote earlier, mead was outlawed up here by the church in an effort to get rid of "our false gods".
Heck I'd settle for having the "Goddesses" give it a promotion.
(And of course, I'd be happy to incorporate them into the new religious movement.
)
Charlie Sheen could polarize the market -- some people would back off on mead if he spoke out on it, others would be saying "I want some of what he's drinking." 
;D
Maybe if Rachael did a show featuring the use of mead as an ingredient in a few recipes . . .
That would also be a great Food Network show -- Ken Schramm visiting various meaderies, tasting, showing the use of mead with cuisine and as food pairing.
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;DMaybe if Rachael did a show featuring the use of mead as an ingredient in a few recipes . . .
That would also be a great Food Network show -- Ken Schramm visiting various meaderies, tasting, showing the use of mead with cuisine and as food pairing.
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That would be awesome, but I'd have to get my sis to tivo it for me, as I don't have cable or whatever the heck you have to buy to watch those shows, as I don't watch TV.
Good on you. I don't watch it either. My friend is on two TV shows this summer and I hope I'll get to see them. ???
I wonder if we have a concensus going here. I don't watch tv either, no real reason, just more interested in other things.
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No TV here, either... that's not to say I don't waste a shit-ton of time in front of a screen everyday (read as: I check GotMead and other internet time-sinks a lil too frequently).
we have cooking shows on free tv here that do wine matching to the cuisine. i would hate to see what it costs for the plug.
but thats also highlights one of the problems of small manufactures in niche markets. promotion is very expensive and it often ends up being just one brand that pays the $$$ and everyone else gets a free ride.
just been taking to someone from another industry here who tried to get all the local produces to come together and put on a show/festival but no one else was interested, everyone wants to do their own thing.
When the rest of the world went HD I didn't even bother to get a converter box. I only use my TV for watching film on DVD. When I want to watch the Oscars I have to use somebody else's TV...
The last time my TV pulled in an honest-to-goodness station was the evening of 9-11 because I wanted to watch the news. It's never been hooked to cable and I think I've watched one movie on it so far this calendar year. Better things to do, really. Like spend all my time making mead and reading gotmead.com
I must admit to watching Food Porn (what we call Man Vs Food) at a friend's place about once a week when we're over for supper... but I wouldn't really miss it if I never saw it again.Seriously though, back on topic, this has been just an awesome thread, I wish I had something better to contribute to it than a comment on an off-topic jaunt... and if there was a mead show with Ken Schramm on the food network or something, I'd definitely make a point of downloading it...
So here we are, talking over reasons why mead isn't more mainstream, and there's a good number of us who are out of touch with the media,
and probably popular culture. ;D
Just yesterday my daughter (age 13) was telling me that the only reason I know a few names of actors and actresses is from taking her to movies or watching something on DVD with her. Say, who is that Charlie Sheen guy anyway, is he getting in some kind of trouble for shooting his mouth off too much?
Too bad Food Network doesn't take in outside ideas. They'd be sitting on top of a hit -- Ken Schramm visiting different meaderies, talking with the owners, taking in the scenery, doing the cuisine pairing thing.
A few years ago I tried sending an e-note to Bill Daley, who was writing a weekly column on wine and other beverages for the Chicago Tribune at the time, pointing out that he was overlooking mead. Didn't get a reply, he never did anything with the subject.
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and probably popular culture. ;D
Just yesterday my daughter (age 13) was telling me that the only reason I know a few names of actors and actresses is from taking her to movies or watching something on DVD with her. Say, who is that Charlie Sheen guy anyway, is he getting in some kind of trouble for shooting his mouth off too much?
Too bad Food Network doesn't take in outside ideas. They'd be sitting on top of a hit -- Ken Schramm visiting different meaderies, talking with the owners, taking in the scenery, doing the cuisine pairing thing.
A few years ago I tried sending an e-note to Bill Daley, who was writing a weekly column on wine and other beverages for the Chicago Tribune at the time, pointing out that he was overlooking mead. Didn't get a reply, he never did anything with the subject.
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