Death of the American Automobile Industry

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Angus

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Aug 19, 2005
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Milwaukee, WI
Frustrated rant here.

Has anyone seen the Ford Mondeo? It was the car in Casino Royale that Bond drove. Great looking car! European style body that easily competes with the BMW/Audi crowd, but gets better mpg. Stylish interior, great technology.....

and only available in Europe!!!!!

What the hell? Are the knuckleheads in Detroit that stupid that they are unwilling to bring a car that the Europeans have embraced to the States? BMW/Merc/Audi are selling better here every year. Americans want that cool Euro style car: responsive, sporty, clean lines. What is wrong with the Ford upper management that they cannot see that the Mondeo will sell well here? I called them and they told me that there are no plans to sell that car here. No wonder our car industry is suffering a slowdeath.

MORONS!

Angus

Just as a mater of interest - what car do you drive?

Mine - 2004 Toyota Corolla LE (148,000 miles and still getting average of 34 mpg).
 
I wish there was a car designed and made in the US by a domestic manufacturer that I could embrace. My wife's cousin is married to a used car dealer here in town and he's selling full-size 4X4 pickups and SUVs faster than he can buy them at the auction. Maybe Detroit, like many successful companies in the US, build and market to the lowest common denominator. How can people still buy these monsters and continue pouring money down the drain?

We have 2001 and 2007 Accords and we obviously love them. Detroit can't build anything to equal them.
 
I disagree -- but only somewhat. Detroit could build cars such as the ones we have embraced, but their careful marketing research and their chosen business strategy suggested to them that they'd make far more $$ per-unit selling full sized SUVs than they ever would selling an Accord or Camry class vehicle. Detroit's not stupid, but they do always look to the bottom line above everything else when making their build plans. That does from time to time come back to bite them in the ass. That's why they almost lost everything in the 1970's - 1980's. They were so intent on looking at the next quarter's bottom line that they failed to see where technological and market advances made by the Japanese were about to eat their lunch. They finally started to figure things out, when relatively cheap fuel became readily available again and they manufactured the SUV craze to allow themselves to slap a different shell on some 20 year old pickup truck chassis designs, to allow them to be sold for tens of thousands of $$ more than the original trucks ever cost, because they had "style." Again -- nothing ever over-rules striving to maximize the profits (or minimize the losses) for the next quarter's sales. A peculiar kind of myopia that may yet doom them in the long run.

BTW - I have a Subaru Outback -- 1996, coming up on the quarter million mile point. I got rid of a 1988 Honda CRX on the insistence of my wife -- not enough seats for the family -- I sold that one with 195,000 mi on the odometer. We also have a Chrysler minivan with AWD -- virtually necessary where we live for winter driving and also from 1996, bought before the Honda Odyssey or any other import van could be had with AWD.
 
mine is a 04 toy tacoma. 42k miles
wifes is a 08 toy highlander. 496 miles
tacoma is about to be traded in the next year for a tundra. >:D
 
i'm still holding on to the relics of the past with my 1970 mustang, for back before the last oil crunch
the bottom will drop out again, the land ships will get sold and the little cars will rule the roads
 
We've got a 98 Corolla, a hair more than 100k miles on it. Still getting 35 mpg, close to 40 on long highway trips. New brakes too.

Even so, my wife is trying desperately to find a bike with the intention of riding to work. (I bike to work now.) Anybody in SF bay area have a ~48cm frame bike to sell? ;)
 
Well, I'm not surprised by the US auto manufacturers getting their asses kicked by Toyota and Honda. I worked for Hughes Aircraft before GM bought us, and left within a year after we were acquired. They pretty much ran it into the ground right out of the gate. I have little to no respect for American Auto Manufacturers and will not sanction their low quality product with my dollars. I loved my Chevy, Olds and Buick big blocks and then watched as the quality of the engines and vehicles that succeeded them dropped. I'd love to buy a great US car and will when I can get the reliability that I have with my Toyota.

I'm driving a 1990 Toyota 4x4 with almost 300,000 miles.

Oskaar
 
I must admit the new Mondeo does look the part, Fords over here are pretty reliable cars and cost effective and parts are cheap to replace too, they have had a bad rap in the past through there easy to steal stigma but seem to be back in favour, the Focus ST is quite a cool little car its been used a lot in the dirt Rallies.
Maybe with the oil prices going through the roof more people will be reverting to smaller economical cars its beyond a joke over here its £1.31 a Litre and rising but the "Government" slaps 65% in taxes on it to get it this high.
Well I own a 1997 Ford van more for practical reasons than choice did have a great Land Rover Defender before that and miss it dearly just too expensive to run and expect to be buying another van this summer and hate to admit it will be French.
 
I own a 1992 Ford ranger (250k miles) and a 2007 Ford Ranger (9k miles)

I think they are great!

And to compare, I had a 97 accord that the engine caught fire... (at 105k miles)) Needless to say I won't ever own a Honda again!

I also read a recent report that said Ford's initial quality was the same as Toyota's, go figure...

And if you read the recent news, GM is shutting down four of it's large truck plants, in favor of their smaller cars. (Even suggested the Hummer is not going to be produced any more.
 
Angus, I agree. But I also need to slap the European car makers for the crap they sell in this country. Back in the 80's my dad had a BMW 745i and it was getting in the mid to upper 30s MPG. During a visit to the states, in CA, he went to a dealership and the exact same model got in the upper 20s MPG. So why can't the high MPG versions of the cars, let alone the diesels in Europe, be sold over here? Just crap!!

On a lighter note I did see that GM is planning to release the Volt on early 2010. Granted shifting the carbon footprint, but for what our family does in a day this type of car would suit us, IF it is built with quality.

We have a Corolla with about 75K and a Jeep Grand Cherokee (the weekend, trip to Lowes, garden center, Home Depot vehicle) sitting in the driveway with 35K.
 
Morons?

Keep in mind Angus that there are people who fully support this site that either work for - or used to work for - Ford Motor Company, that could potentially find your comments somewhat offensive. Do you really believe that importing the Mondeo would make a measurable difference in the bottom line at Ford these days? Would you replace your Toyota with one? You don't think for a minute, just one minute, that some of the problems the domestic auto industry is going through has anything to do with what the majority of those who responded to your Just as a matter of interest question have parked in their garages ..... do you?

Frustrated rant here also - GL63
 
GrantLee,

Good point, and, despite the obvious contradiction to my 'Moron' comment, I do not mean to offend anyone. I just want to vent my frustration at those people at the top who do not seem to be making the smart decisions. I realise that there could be some Ford employees who are GotMead members, and I apologise if I offended.

Would I buy a Mondeo if it was available here? Absolutely! It looks like a fantastic car. Do I think that the suffering of the domestic auto industry has anything to do with my Toyota? Again, absolutely. GM, Ford, etc. are great companies that design great cars. Case in point, the Mondeo. They have it, just not here. Why? They do not have to start from scratch in their design. Just retool the domestic factories to start making their own car. Easier said than done? Of course. But they know what direction the auto industry needs to go to survive. Toyota is an example to follow, which is why foreign auto companies are decimating our own. They make a good product that is designed for the current needs of the people.

I want the American auto industry to survive. I will buy one when I feel that they are making a car that is reliable, economicle, and sips gas. I just cannot believe that they will not do whatever it takes to win all of the people who currently drive a foreign car back by doing something that I think is so obvious. Bring us the Mondeo, and we will come!

Angus
 
I think Jay Leno sums it up nicely:

Jay Leno tells Detroit how to fix itself
Jay Leno advises Detroit on how to get Americans to buy American
By Jay Leno
Portfolio.com
updated 3:55 p.m. ET, Fri., May. 23, 2008
The type of vehicles America makes best are, unfortunately, not the type of vehicles that people really want anymore. Nobody builds better trucks than the Americans do. Not even the Japanese build as good a truck as the Ford F-150 or the Chevy Silverado.

It’s the same with performance cars. The Corvette Z06 has 505 horsepower, comes with a big warranty, and can hit 200 miles per hour. It weighs almost exactly the same as a half-million-dollar Porsche Carrera GT and gets higher mileage — 26 miles per gallon.

Where we seem to lose it is in the low-bucks econocar. I used to be able to identify any American car from 25 yards. Now they all have this jellybean look. It’s a mystery to me, because the one thing we used to do better than anybody else was build cheap, extremely high-quality cars. We did it for decades, all the way back to the beginning of the industry.

There was no better car for the money than the Model T. It was a basic car, but it used the finest materials available. There are still almost a million of them out there.

When you get into a high-priced, well-made American car today and the key is in the ignition, you hear a melodic bong, bong. But when you get in a cheap American car, like a rental, and the key is left in, it goes plink, plink, plink. It’s just horrible. Every time you use the turn signal, it’s like breaking a chicken leg.

In order to make the more expensive car more appealing, U.S. companies feel as though they have to dumb down the cheaper car.

I believe that, all things being equal, Americans will buy American. It just has to be as good as the competition; it doesn’t have to be better. The classic example is Harley-Davidson. Throughout the ’70s, the motorcycle maker had huge quality-control problems. Then Harley-Davidson said, “Look, let’s take our time. Let’s build fewer bikes. Let’s build them properly, so they don’t leak oil and they’ll run forever.” Harley-Davidson won back the market share it had lost, and it continues to dominate today.

Even though the bikes might not be technically superior, they’re bulletproof and they’re American. People will buy American if given the chance.


The automakers are starting to think like Harley and understand that when you get into an automobile, everything should be appealing to you. If you see stitching that’s out of line on the dashboard, you’re going to get madder and madder every time you see it. That’s one place where the American car companies dropped the ball.

Thankfully, in the past couple of years, they have gotten better. If you look at the new line of G.M. cars, they are almost as good as what the Europeans are doing, especially when you compare interiors. Cadillac has a line of small four-door sedans that are, if not quite the rival of Audi or Mercedes, pretty darn close for quite a bit less money.

The problem with what's happened over the past few decades is that you have a whole generation of kids who have no brand loyalty. They've grown up on Honda, Hyundai, Kia and Toyota. To lure them to the American brand, you’ve got to give them something exciting, something bold, something different.

America does technology well, and I think this is how the companies will bring those buyers back. I think cars like the Chevy Volt, which is entirely battery-powered, or hydrogen cars from Chrysler, Ford and G.M. will take off.


Looking into my crystal ball, I predict that Toyota will probably become the dominant force, and the other companies will have to become leaner to survive. They’ll start reining in some of the more unprofitable models.

The overhead at most of the U.S. firms is crazy, and they’ll have to figure out a way to fix that. They’ll ultimately survive, but I think that they’ll need to change how they do business. And in the future, you’ll see smaller companies doing more boutique manufacturing, as BMW has with the Mini.

One last thing: No matter what happens, do not expect all American cars to go Eurosize. American buttocks are not getting any smaller.


URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24714435/
 
As a former Ford salaried employee (I was bought out in 2001 during one of the early workforce cutbacks) I'll attest to the fact that I'm not offended by an opinion that reflects poorly on Ford. I currently own two of them (a 2000 Taurus and a 2000 Windstar). Aside of the fact that my Taurus gets crappy mileage and always has, I've always liked them both as far as layout and design goes. Now if only they'll figure out that oil companies are NOT their friends and create something that's affordable and gets GOOD mileage. When they do that I'll but another one. Until then, I'm planning on Toyota or Hyundai for my next vehicle. Mileage is a really important factor these days. That and the fact that I'm 6'4" and can not fit into a crackerbox sub compact. My Taurus has plenty of room for me, but at 16 miles per gallon I've always felt like I got kind of boned on that purchase. :protest:
 
The US automakers (Ford, Chevy, Chrysler) have GOT to get the union thing out of their business to regain profitability. I read that $1500- $2500 of every GM vehicle (and I expect similar for Ford and Chrysler) goes to compensation for a retired union brother/sister. The compensation, especially retirement perks, these companies pay union workers is a HUGE thorn in their business.

American Axel in Michigan went on strike a few months ago severely affecting GM's production. When is the last time you heard of Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, or Nissan having a plant shut down due to a strike? It doesn't happen because they've been successful in keeping unions out of their facilities. They don't pay their people union wages either. They treat their employees fairly though and treat them more like partners. The Japanese and Korean builders don't have this same $1500-$2500 burden on the cars they produce. It gives them the ability to put more money into R&D and overall quality.

I found out last year if a union plant has to lay-off union employees for lack of work the company still has to pay them for 40 hours. The purpose of the lay-off is supposed to be to save money due to low business. The problem is you can't take a seat installer off his station on the assembly line and have him install tires at another station because that potentially puts another union brother/sister out of work. The Japanese and Korean builders don't have this problem either. Most employees are trained to do multiple jobs and are expected to perform those duties when asked.

The (once) big 3 have got to get a better handle on the union thing to get more competitive in the market place.



All the Best,
D. White
 
Some will agree, others not, but...........

Mondeo's are crap. Mediocre, bland, useful only for "sales rep's"! They're not alone. So many cars on the roads today are just bland, bland, bland.

The sales types hypnotise us into thinking that the latest shiney new XXX is the latest wonder car. But in truth they're more hideous crap.

The market in the US and the market in Europe are diametrically opposed. Damn, the average "local" road in most major US cities are bigger/wider than the vast majority of motorway/autobahn/autoroute/autostrada etc. Hence the US market has historically been aimed at big, gas guzzling, "comfortmobiles".

One of the few makes that seem to come close to the "Japs" are BMW, with merc/VW not so far behind.

As for "technology" and/or innovation ? Well how about this, most of the manufacturers only produce more of the same crap, but with slightly better finish/facilities because their shareholders are conservative by nature and wouldn't want to put money into something that just won't sell.

Whereas the Japs have come on "leaps and bounds" since they started making cars for "foreign" markets. They seem to have learned quite well from the West/US mistakes. Sure they still haven't managed to "crack" the problem of depreciation of prices, as they drop quicker than a lot of the others, but they've made huge gains in quality of finish, reliability, MPG etc.

In the US, you have some incredible motoring heritage, which I believe should be saved, but also kept garaged and only brought out on "high days and holidays" - damn some of those mid-60's mustangs are beautiful. But impractical, especially in Europe. Who can afford to run a car that does 10 to 15 MPG when places like the UK are looking at 11 $US per gallon.

So save the dinosaurs, but keep them well fed and watered and only take 'em out for a walk occasionally :D

The same could be said for the motorcycle industry. Harley's are vvv pretty bikes, eminently customisable, but here in the UK the average owner is well over 50 years old. Cos' practically nobody else can afford them. Plus while they have beautiful styling, excellent engines/gearboxes, they handle like shit, with awful suspension and crap brakes. Anyone who can afford, can often be found replacing the brakes with brembo's or similar and the stock suspension with stuff like WP and/or Ohlins. Which improves handling some, but they're not bikes for small streets, they were developed for long, straight "cruise" roads. Which are rarer in Europe than they are in the US.

Oh and before I finish, good luck with the presidential election. I'd like to hope that Mr Obama will be as good as he seems, that'd be truely excellent. My problem is that "Obama 08" seems too similar to "Blair 97" i.e. an overly glib/smug car salesman. I hope in the event of his election he doesn't turn out like Bliar did, feeding us so much crap, but in a nice, plausible but patronising way. Ha!, politicians! Bless 'em. I just wish they could "do" honesty.

regards

fatbloke

p.s. "the fatbloke has left the thread" :D